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Tate hates Vietnam Vets like the War Protestors Did
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Author Topic: Former Tate Supporter Says Tate Not At Thua Tich Ambush  (Read 27303 times)
Fergus Fairfax
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« Reply #10 on: Sunday22November2009 »

AN OPEN CHALLENGE TO DON TATE, RICHARD BIGWOOD, KEVIN LLOYD-THOMAS 

Since early 2007 various former members of 4 RAR in Vietnam who were posted to HQ 1 ATF in 1969 have been trying to rewrite Australia's Military history and cement a place for themselves as heroes, unsung heroes, of what they claim was an elite special Forces Platoon.

 
These wannabes claim they did a job the SASR were unsuited for and afraid to do. They claim they were involved in one of the biggest Battles of the Vietnam War. They claim to have alone confronted what amounted to an enemy Army [ their words]. They claim this “elite” Platoon killed more enemy than any other Australian Infantry Platoon during the Vietnam war. They claim various of their members should have been decorated for Heroism and that instead undeserving cowards and favourites received their Decorations. They claim there has been a huge corruption of Australia's War history which has been engineered by many Senior Officers, Politicians and others. They claim War crimes were committed by Australian Soldiers, yet have failed to provide conclusive evidence to prove this slur on all Australian Vietnam Veterans.They claim the official records of Australia's Vietnam involvement were deliberately altered to write out the existence of their alleged 2nd D&E Platoon. In effect they are claiming any Johnny come lately can appear out of the blue, produce spurious evidence, which they refuse to release in full for all Veterans to digest, and though it disagrees with War history as verified by War diaries, After Action Reports and other official documents,that their version of our Military history should replace the verified history. If this is the way War history is to be written then all War history must be regarded as a farce.
 

We publicly challenge those names as follows
 

Don Tate to swear an Affidavit before a Judge that he was at Thua Tich on the night ambush of 29 May 1969.
 

Richard "Rick"  Bigwood to swear an Affidavit before a Judge that he was at Thua Tich on the night ambush of 29 May 1969.
 

Kevin Lloyd Thomas to swear an Affidavit before a Judge that he was at Thua Tich on the night ambush of 29 May 1969.
 

All three to swear individual Affidavits before a Judge that Australian Soldiers committed War Crimes near Thua Tich around 30 May 1969.
 

All three to swear individual Affidavits before a Judge that one or all witnessed Australian Soldiers sling between 3 and 5 enemy bodies up to the back of an APC and that those bodies were transported in that fashion, and not bound securely to the top of the Cavalry vehicle, to Xuyen Moc village and displayed to local villagers and that one or more of those bodies was headless.

No changing subjects, attacking the characters of others, debates or any other obfuscations will be accepted.


Failure to produce the complete evidence which this group says exists of its daring escapades, and failure to produce sworn Affidavits will be taken as a sure sign that the Australian Veteran community, the AWM. The Australian Military History Unit, Politicians, the Defence Department, the media, Murdoch books and others have been lied to.

The above mentioned may send their Affidavits and complete evidence to  admin@austvetmatters.net 

AVM.

Tate's educational qualifications.

Tate's teacher's ticket wasn't worth a cracker until he got a job teaching. How did he get a teacher's position? He told us all not long ago.  He finally bullied his way into a position by claiming discrimination against him for being a wounded (what else) war veteran while women and minorities (maybe even "ethnic minorities", I could stand corrected on that) were handed positions without question.

He bullied and barged around the place until someone gave in just to get him out the door a la Mike Kelly...He got his job and looked what happened.  He stiffed the school tuckshop, how and why? Wounded heroes don't pay for pies with extra sauce. Especially handsome devils like him who had a way with the Mums working there.

His ability as a teacher or maybe his over-friendliness with students cause revolt in the parent ranks. Not a common occurrence, was it?

Who wrote the final draft of his book?  It wasn't him, that's for sure.

Watch his videos for an idea of his grasp on English. Also note a lisp. In that one minor speech impediment Don Tate reminds me of Mike Tyson. A kid who was bullied for being different and turned nasty in his teen years. The comparison ends right there. Mike can fight like a thrashing machine while this dog runs to hide behind his wife's skirt and girly AVOs.

BC
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Fergus Fairfax
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« Reply #9 on: Monday17August2009 »

Don Tate has had a website published for some time. If you look at the number of visitors to his website, which he proudly displays, the numbers are miniscule. Just in the hundreds.

Anyway this is a quote from Tates website

"In the memoir, I devote a chapter to the 2nd D&E Platoon- a platoon of men who operated during May/June of 1969- but which wasn’t recorded in the histories of the war. In a battle that took many years, I challenged the integrity of the Australian Army with respect to the validity of its war records, and detailed matters which occurred at the village of Thua Tich on May 29th, 1969.
 Those contentions are the reason why this platoon was excluded from the histories of the war- and are yet to be fully revealed.
 On May 29th in 2008, the Australian Federal Government formally acknowledged the existence of the platoon, and its activities. That announcement was made by the Hon Dr Mike Kelly MP, Secretary to the Minister for Veteran Affairs.
 This was validation for myself and those others who fought alongside me- Ted Colmer; Kevin Lloyd-Thomas; and Richard ‘Barney’ Bigwood."


Houston we have a problem. You state [ above ] you were at the Thua Tich ambush fighting alongside Ted Colmer. Ted Colmer says you were not part of the ambush at Thua Tich.

This is another quote from Tates website

"It is a version accepted by the Australian War Memorial despite a vigorous and hostile campaign waged by the infantry veterans who contend that many of the bodies were actually blown up in an ‘engineer’s burial” while others were strapped upside down behind the backs of APC’s and transported into Xuyen Moc for propaganda purposes."

You have variously quoted these events and other versions of them in various emails and claim war crimes were committed by those you served with. Once again Houston has a problem. Ted Colmer, who was part of the Thua Tich ambush, categorically says NO war crimes were committed in the Thua Tich AO 29May69-31May69 .

This is another quote from Tates website

" Since no “official” record of the 2nd D&E Platoon existed, in later years men from the platoon were unable to draw upon their experiences in that ambush as a reason for psychological damage- thus were denied war pensions."

The SA Department of Veterans Affairs sent a formal letter to the SA RSL ages ago in which this department stated NO Vietnam Veteran who served on the Thua Tich operation has ever been denied Repatriation Benefits based on the reasons you claim.

If ANY Vietnam Veteran has been denied legitimate Repatriation Benefits because of the reasons you state---GIVE US THEIR NAMES.....NOW.
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Zion
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« Reply #8 on: Saturday15August2009 »

Tate will do all he can to neuter the information sent out by his former supporter Ted Colmer. Tate at heart is a weak grovellor.

From: xxxxxxxxxxx
To: admin@austvetmatters.net
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 5:33 PM
Subject: Fw: recent revelations..2nd D&E Platoon matter


From: Allen Petersen
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 5:06 PM
Subject: Fw: recent revelations..2nd D&E Platoon matter



From: Donald Tate
To: Allen Petersen
Sent: Saturday, 15 August 2009 2:16 PM
Subject: recent revelations..2nd D&E Platoon matter


I have just been made aware of recent statements made by Ted Colmer. I shall deal with them when I return from WA. 
However, I must say that I have smiled to myself to learn that suddenly there is a backing away. A bit like what happened to Bob Enright and Major Pound in 1976......?

As for that smart little comment by Pete Edwards.....good to see you've come out of hiding again....I shall be catching up with you in due course, so enjoy your drink. You won't afford many more, some point down the track.

By the way, I have always acknowledged Ted Colmer as the man who has done all the investigating work in unmasking the 2nd D&E Platoon matter, and done so many times. He has done an extraordinary job, and the AFP are awaiting his 200 pages of documented evidence. I have never claimed to have done any more in this matter than present the overview- and done so in a manner that allowed more and more material to come to light.

That was always my role. Ted Colmer had the skills and the initiative, and we all let him to it. But I also did my own work as insurance.
Don Tate


Don Tate
author, "The War Within" 
·        “The War Within”is a complex, virtuoso analysis of one man’s world- an utterly compelling and profoundly unsettling mosaic. On the one hand, it is an acidic dissection of the role environment and family have in developing a person’s character, and on the other, it is a sauntering chronicle of social analysis and injustice. One is almost left breathless”-                   L. Ollsen, Freelance Reviewer
 
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Zion
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« Reply #7 on: Friday14August2009 »

From: remloc
To: Fergus Fairfax ; Allen J Petersen ; admin@austvetmatters.net
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 2:53 PM
Subject: THE QUESTION OF NUMERICAL ESTABLISHMENT & ORBAT OF HQ 1 TF - 2ND D & E PLATOON TASK FORCE


TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:

FORGET ABOUT FURTHER MEDIA OPPORTUNITIES DON, AND PROVIDE A RETRACTION TO THE ALLEGED ATROCITIES FORTHWITH

The constructive establishment of this sub-unit is no longer of any interest to me, albeit, pursued in good faith and honesty, following the vicious and fabricated allegations of atrocities committed by this infantry platoon at Thua Tich.  Nevertheless, I will provide you with any amount of information and evidence available, provided you debate this issue without subjecting my submissions to editing or any alterations per se.  Otherwise criticise my research and rationale as much as you like, because I am responsible.

Please understand that this e-mail from Bill Houston was the last in a long series of submissions, but highlights my singular research finalisation of this matter [so I therefore take full responsibility for the correctness or otherwise of this research] that was assisted greatly by other dedicated members, with the two listed near the end of your Mad Galah Forum index page [remaining unnamed] both at Thua Tich, and the ensuing route: 328 ambush to Xuyen Moc.  I also know the identity of the other rifleman dragging the body viz: the AWM photo collection, who will now also have to remain nameless, until these allegations of atrocities are subject to retraction.  Don Tate never fully participated in providing [as he singularly referred to in the Herald] with any conclusive research material of proof value, for production of documentary evidence purposes, establishing the sub-unit status of this 2nd D & E Platoon Task Force, under the promulgated Parent ORBAT of HQ 1 ATF, during the course of Phase: 2 Operation: Garryowen, from: 14 May 69 – 8 June 69 inclusive. On the 9 June 69 elements from Mick Woolan’s pre-existing Establishment D & E Platoon continued with Phase: 2 Op: Garryowen, under the op con of 1 Troop, [Captain David Lawrence & then signalman Normie Rowe] following their return RTB: Nui Dat from Operation: Mailed Fist, with Tango Force from: 1 May 69 – 31 May 69.  This followed Mick’s short occupation of FSPB: Virginia, waiting for the arrival of 6 RAR for the commencement of Op: Lavarack.  Mick’s D & E Platoon [which I was posted to] continued with Phase: 2 Op: Garryowen until mid July 69.  2nd Lt Mick Woolan MC was a great skipper with his citation for gallantry justified following the engagement of NVA in the Courtenay Rubber on the 27 May 69, and in consideration to his overall leadership.

All 2nd D & E Platoon Task Force members were ARA Reo Riflemen from 4 RAR.   Our platoon commander was seconded “detached” from 1 ARU as Infantry Platoon Commander HQ 1 ATF.   I have possession of the 1 ARU Roll book evidence, detaching him with a “Y” for the duration of this platoon’s operations, including evidence of his R & R in July 69.   I would suggest that the attachment of an infantry platoon commander to this sub-unit singularly constitutes the official construction of an infantry sub-unit, and as even reinforcement “supernumerary” reserves, we would still be under the control of the Parent ORBAT HQ 1 TF albeit, not under the numerical Establishment of Personnel & Staff, but still under the Establishment authority [TW] Tropical Weapons & Equipment issue of HQ 1 ATF, until fully operational with our op con to Cavalry.  Infantry sub-units, including rifle companies have no individual ORBAT promulgation, thereby under the ORBAT of the Parent Battalion or in this situation HQ Coy 1 ATF.

The jpg image attached refers to AWM98 R569/169/37 Research Centre, Operation: GARRYOWEN 1 ATF OP INSTR 41/69, DATED: 2 MAY 69

Please peruse this message [there are others] received on the 6 May 69 and understand with reference to BRAVO. TWO MOR APC CMM ONE RIFLE PL [ 3 PL WHISKY COY 4 RAR/NZ] AND ONE MORTAR SECTION 4 RAR ALLOTTED FROM AM 7 MAY 69.  This has been verified from Commanders’ diary logs et al, with 3 Pl W Coy 4 RAR/NZ, RTB: Nui Dat 17 May 69, from OP: Garryowen in A0-SCORPION [Xuyen Moc] to prepare for their return to New Zealand.

Therefore, this platoon required relief and 3 Cav required infantry reinforcements on Garryowen.

CHARLIE. RELIEF OF 4 RAR ELMS TO BE DETAILED LATER.     Since 4 RAR was assigned with the responsibility of providing riflemen, this relief resulted in the movement of 46 ARA REO Riflemen to HQ Coy 1 ATF, on or about the 11 May 69 [watermanship training occurring on the 12 – 13 May 69] vide: Message Form Priority 0730H 11 May 69 – R852/1//11, OPS 729, TO: HQ COY & 1 FD SQN: WATERMANSHIP TRG D & E PL 12 -13 MAY 69, by Drafter: Gee.  4 RAR had to accommodate exactly 46 early arrival ORs from 6 RAR [dated: 6 May 69]. Therefore, the  46/ 4 RAR riflemen were posted to HQ Coy 1 ATF in compliance with the early arrival of those 6 RAR ORS billeting and rationing requirements, and to further fulfil the relief requirements of 3 Pl Whisky Coy 4 RAR inter alia.   A number of these 46/ 4 RAR Reos posted to HQ Coy 1 ATF were subject to AFV Directives [rifleman – storeman et al] with one AWOL R & R, including extension leave personnel.  I have estimated that 40 members were assigned to the 2nd D & E Platoon Task Force, but can’t fully quantify these figures, or disqualify them any further either [other than what I know] without obtaining additional posting directives. Nonetheless, most I can visually identify with assistance from others; also subject to AWM Collection photos by Army Public Relations Sgt: Christopher Bellis and Dr Denis Stanley Gibbons.

FROM 0730H 7 MAY 69 UNTIL REL ONE RIFLE PL 4 RAR.

As mentioned the responsibility of providing riflemen and mortar men for Operation: Garryowen was allocated to 4 RAR, that included the required relief of 3 Pl W Coy 4 RAR: 7 – 17 May 69  Therefore from the 46 ARA REO Riflemen posted to HQ Coy 1 ATF [pencilled into pages: 8 & 9 of Posted HQ Coy Roll book No: 16 from: May – June 69 inclusive on the 19 May 69] approximately 40 were selected for operations, with the pdf listed chronology, detailing Commanders’ diary logs; Sitreps and Intsums, that cites all narratives where this D & E Platoon is mentioned by name.

Please follow that chronology and ask questions accordingly. The only exception to this chronology is our brief RTB: Nui Dat on the 22 May 69, where some members were dropped off; we stayed the night, and proceeded back to Xuyen Moc, on the 23 May 69.

I have evidence verifying all this with much more detail including Aust Force Vietnam Establishment ORBAT/Personnel/Staff Tables for HQ 1 TF, that includes Establishment Authority (TW) Tropical Weapons and Equipment, on issue to our reserves.
 

I concede there is a question of our Establishment credence criteria, viz: Aust Force Vietnam [Army Component] Establishment ORBAT/Personnel/ Staff tables, that numerically identifies by mathematical deduction, that this referred to 2nd D & E Platoon was “supernumerary” and therefore technically but correctly “surplus” to the Establishment, when compared with the Daily Parade State of Roll book No: 16, attendance status for May – June 69.   I realise the numerical manpower Establishment constant was  = 181 for HQ 1 ATF, from April – December 1969, and poses a numerical conflict with the Daily Parade State: May & June = 227, with the Posted surplus = 46 reserves from 4 RAR.  Therefore representing our 40 Operational Platoon members, with the other 6 accounted for by AWOL R & R, or subject to AFV Directives RA Inf [Riflemen – Storemen et al], and extension leave inter alia.
 

Nonetheless, it was raised under the umbrella of HQ 1 ATF with a designated  Infantry Commissioned Platoon Commander and subordinate chain of NCO command structure, including WO2 Ernie Hayden RA Inf – HQ Coy 1 ATF [Thua Tich] and referred to almost 60 [sixty] times in Commanders’ diary logs; Sitreps, and Intsums, as a distinct separate D & E Pl; consisting of up to 40 ARA REO Riflemen, from 4 RAR/NZ [ANZAC Bn] for a specific “ad hoc” interdiction operation; relieving 3 Platoon Whisky Coy 4 RAR/NZ, and reinforcing both 2 & 1 Troop of B Squadron 3 Cavalry Regiment on Operation; Garry Owen, and should be recognised and enshrined with all other D & E Platoons per se.

I will discuss this with the AWM and technically concede for documentary and historically enduring AWM archival purposes, conciliation of this dispute could be reconciled by referring to our platoon as “ad hoc” to the Establishment; “referring to ourselves” as the 2nd D & E Platoon Task Force, rather than officially, albeit, a secondary Sub-unit was consequentially raised, and corroborated by the volumes of evidence produced recognising a distinct secondary D & E Platoon Task Force [distinct from 2nd Lt Woolan] during the course of this supernumerary rotation period with most member’s consequential posting to 9 RAR.  I note that five members including myself remained with D & E Pl until late 69.
 

Therefore, and irrespective of the contradicting notion of numerical Establishment [still on Roll book Posted strength] in military terms this platoon deserves to be reorganised on the objective for HQ 1 TF, as the 2nd D & E Platoon Task Force.


Ted Colmer

* Colmer1.pdf (72.23 KB - downloaded 1445 times.)

* Colmer2.jpg (270.45 KB, 1579x2371 - viewed 1014 times.)

* Colmer3.jpg (410.82 KB, 1576x2286 - viewed 927 times.)
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Fergus Fairfax
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« Reply #6 on: Thursday13August2009 »

Ted Colmer raises some very pertinent and relevant points. The one I would highlight is the denigration of all Vietnam Veterans through Tates words and behaviour. Being sick like Tate is is no excuse for his behaviour, it just explains it.

It is now clear Tate was never at the Thua Tich ambush, something AVM has been saying for ages. It is also clear Tate will even use those he served with like Jim Riddle and the other D&E Platoon members to make money.

What a germ, what a disgrace to all those who served in Vietnam. But to allege war crimes against obviously innocent men doesn't just affect them, these scurrilous lies affect all who served in Vietnam.

I know for sure some terrible things happened during the Vietnam war, like it does in all Wars. War is a dysfunctional, dirty matter, it is not the normal human condition, and it cannot be scripted and I know no decent war Veteran who would say there is any honour in War. However as history proves sometimes we end up in a brawl.

But to denigrate your mates for personal gain and then with lies is the ultimate treachery. These are men who helped protect us and who stood by us through thick and thin.

Tate you are a disgrace to the Austarlain Defence Forces and the War Veteran community and you will be forced to skulk away into your filthy burrow and hide for ever more.
« Last Edit: Thursday13August2009 by Shadow » Logged
Zion
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« Reply #5 on: Wednesday12August2009 »

Before you read my post please read the post below by Fergus. Fergus is correct. There was never a 2nd D&E Platoon raised on the ORBAT [Order of Battle ]. The Task Force D&E Platoon was enlarged with the influx of members of 4 RAR and then the TF Commander simply tasked a group of D&E Platoon to complete a task in the Thua Tich area  and this group referred to itself as the 2nd D&E Pl. Nobody at AVM has ever denied elements of D&E Pl were on Operation in the Thua Tich area. We add that the record of the Operations of D&E Pl at Thua Tich can be found in the Commanders Diaries.

Now read the latest from Ted Colmer.



From: remloc  REMLOC IS TED COLMER
Sent: Wednesday, 12 August 2009 12:12 PM
To: 'Allen Petersen'; 'Undisclosed-Recipient:;'; Barry CORSE
Cc: 'Richard Williams''; Alan Price; Dennis Manski; etricker; Jim Fraser; Kay & Alan Roach; Kay & Allan; sopwith1; nealcremen; ricb; richard appleby; rick; Robert Secrett; 'jeqon'
Subject: SPURIOUS ALLEGATIONS OF ATROCITIES COMMITTED BY THE 2ND D & E PLATOON TASK FORCE - THUA TICH

 

Barry,

BRIEF REBUTTAL:

How dare you corroborate and then attempt to justify these allegations of atrocities committed by this platoon.

I challenge you and Don Tate to a public forum debate concerning these allegations, and his attendance on Phase: 2 of Operation: Garryowen from the 14 May 69 until 8 June 69 inclusive.
 

Otherwise, this matter has absolutely nothing to do with you Barry, and can only be resolved with Don Tate retracting the statements alleged against this platoon. The very existence of this platoon is now totally irrelevant to the superseding complaints of atrocities allegedly committed by the men that served in this sub-unit. There is no greater cause to rectify when you have been engaged on active service, then to be accused forty years later of committing war crimes, especially by a member who has financial book motivating marketing agenda’s paramount to preserving the “status quo” integrity of this platoon’s reputation and that of all associated Vietnam armed forces, and is certainly not in a position to witness or make such scurrilous allegations against our platoon at Thua Tich. Don Tate’s apparent dislike for Cavalry and a certain well known trooper, arising from matters in the 1980s fuels his retribution, resulting in the scheming cultivation of our platoon membership in 2007 for book publishing purposes.  I believe the fictional account of his personal involvement highlighted in Chapter: The orphan platoon is either plagiarised from other member’s accounts, or falsified, following the devious cultivation of certain members for information purposes in early 2007 [differing greatly to his original web site] which was a prerequisite to finalising this chapter and accordingly his book, that no-one was aware of until he made that announcement, immediately alienating most members.

 

Your philosophical predication, justifying this particular matter is flawed Barry.  There is nothing greater than restoring the dignity deserved to our platoon members, and others affected by this scandalous and totally exaggerated expose’.  I recently consulted with my psychiatrist [well known in Sydney] to discover numerous patients have reported extreme anxiety from these revelations. Our platoon is now dishonoured by these allegations and deeply wounded.  I would be surprised to discover that this book is validated by the DVA and used as a written text for Veterans’ programs, since his media marketing strategy is causing so much exacerbated anxiety.  Don Tate is a malcontent figure that flagrantly hates anyone that disagrees with his determination and ruthless ambition to ensure financial success, derived from the misery of other Vietnam veterans per se.

 

For principle of privacy reasons I will not list the factual nominal roll of infantry that took part in these engagements [that physically excludes Don Tate] including: the 9 man listening active ambush post [call sign I – 63] with the remaining infantry sections reinforcing: XX, XX & XX section APCs, because these men have now been collectively tarnished with the stigma of allegedly committing atrocities following the aftermath of these engagements, and have to reside with those allegations, negating the premise of your philosophical rationale Barry, because collateral damage has now been inflicted on not just that composite force of soldiers, but also widespread amongst many Vietnam veterans, which will not assist your determination to bring down the Establishment, at the expense of those soldiers on the ground; contradicting your reasoning herein.   We have been collectively betrayed by a person with nothing but financial motives, rather than altruistic purposes, so transparent to all platoon members et al.  I have repeatedly pleaded, warned, and otherwise tried to persuade Don Tate to divert his attention from deriding certain “baggy arse” diggers et al [especially constructive Establishment D & E Platoon Task Force members; SAS, and Cavalry] but he was intent on vilification and destruction.  Therefore. what is the premise of your criminal complaints to the AFP regarding WAR CRIMES Barry?   This is the first time I have heard that formal criminal complaints have been tendered to the AFP concerning alleged war crimes at Thua Tich, and with that I will vigorously defend these vicious and totally incongruous assertions, premised entirely on the most malevolent and insidiously treacherous act of betrayal of confidentiality I have ever experienced.  Therefore, should I prepare myself for a visit by the AFP in relation to these allegations, or would you prefer that I surrender myself for interrogation and charging under the Geneva Convention articles inter alia.

 

During the course of our deployment on Phase: 2 Operation Garryowen from date: 14 May 69 – 8 June 69 we operated with a designated call sign I – 63, when patrolling and conducting singular section size ambushes.  Otherwise, all sections conducted combined RIF operations with these troops. All men including: Cavalry troopers; Infantry; Sappers; and Mortar men always fought with courage and some real aggressive displayed gallantry, and any gibing between corps was founded on mere trivial rivalry, and considered healthy for morale.  3 SQN SAS were superior soldiers performing covert reconnaissance under the most perilous conditions with some unavoidable engagements during the course of April; May – June 69 inclusive.  GsO2 [OPS] Major David Chinn, directed SAS to avoid contact during this period, and concentrate on intelligence gathering.  I have studied and noted their extraordinary success during the HO CHI MINH Offensive [19 May 69] especially given the 18 man 3 SQN SAS saturation patrol of 18 – 27 May 69, sighting almost 800 VC/NVA, as the large scale traversing enemy walked within a few metres of their 9 day listening post, on a congested east/west track position just 10 clicks from Thua Tich, that resulted in our deployment on the 28 May 69 [with the assignment of AO-FROG to 3 Cav,] with the much deserved recognition for outstanding leadership and gallantry awarded to the Troop Commander.  3 SQN SAS were later permitted to interdict and aggressively engage the enemy; resulting in excess of 85 confirmed KIA for the Regiment. The point being how could we consider ourselves superior to SAS or even pretend to, and what do you precisely mean with your reference to SAS in conjunction with 1 ATF’s Commander.   I haven’t had possession or read this apparent submission?

 

I reported [in recent months] the whereabouts of large grave sites south of Thua Tich near route: 328 to the Australian embassy’s defence attaché Colonel Stuart Dodds, at YS 610785.  Bushranger 71 witnessed VC removing 3 bodies from these grave sites, on the 31 May 69.   Perhaps the VC moved all bodies to another site, albeit, the grave site was substantial, accounting for further VC KIA at Thua Tich and en route: 328 ambush.  The site is south of the old abandoned village somewhere between that engagement position and the Friday attempted ambush on our APC column, during the course of Buddha [birthday] Cease fire arrangement.  So there is that huge grave site the Vietnamese can excavate.  With respect to these matters, this would be the respectful path for the Vietnamese Government to pursue rather than focusing on the negative or sensationism. The statement by Don Tate asserting that there are no bodies left for them to find, highlighting the recovery of Flying Officers Michael Herbert and Pilot Officer Robert Carver for further impact is a dishonourable and disgraceful inclusion, and shouldn’t be rewarded by corroborating and attempting to justify these acts of betrayal.

 

I note that the article attached, together with radio interviews, and the Herald article dated: 12 July 2009 makes direct allegations of atrocities committed by this infantry platoon, with such sensationalised media reports always preceding Don Tate’s book tours??
Ted Colmer

218512

Machine Gunner Listening post Thua Tich [therefore, accused of committing Thua Tich related atrocities]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Allen Petersen petersaj@bigpond.net.au
Sent: Monday, 10 August 2009 11:52 PM
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Cc: Richard Williams'
Subject: 2nd D&E Platoon - Mike Kelly's Statement

 

NB. 2 posts under 'West' article

G'day Barry

I was wondering if someone in the West might advise the President of the VVAA that the 2nd D&E Platoon has been formally acknowledged as a unit, and reinstated into the histories of the war in May 2008 by Mike Kelly MP. Apparently

the word didn't get through to this bloke who has come out in today's West Australian saying he has "doubt" about it.

One might have thought that the leader of an ex-serviceman's organisation (of which I am a member) might have kept abreast of these developments instead of showing his ignorance. I actually have a copy of Mike Kelly's Statement with me, as well as other evidence.

 

Don Tate
author, "The War Within" 
 

From: Barry Corse

To: 'WA pres Richard Williams'

Cc: 'Donald Tate' ; 'Allen Petersen'

Sent: Monday, 10 August 2009 12:53 PM

Subject: 2nd D&E Platoon- Mike Kelly's Statement

G’day Richard 

I have the advantage of knowing your personal integrity and sincerity, on that basis having read the comments in today’s West Australian by Joseph Catanzaro and on that basis, IF you are correctly quoted then Don Tate’s comments below do not appear to be extract correct, per the said article. 

Depending on an individual reading, it could be construed that you as the VVWA President are imputing that the 2nd D&E Platoon did not exist and arguably you have denigrated and defamed the 40 plus ANZACs who served in that platoon. If so, I doubt that was your intention? Pursuant to my comments below, you may care to clarify your purported quoted comments. 

1. I have seen some the evidence that the executive government and AWM and DVA have relied on to accept that the 2nd D&E Platoon of that brief period did exist.

2. the statement of the HQ1ATF Company Commander, George Pratt that he raised the platoon on the express orders of the Task Force Commander Pearson.

3. the AWM and I have a copy of the correspondence re the purported shameful boast by Pearson, why he raised the 2nd D&E Platoon to the offensive detriment of the very courageous and under-sung valour of the SAS Regiment ANZACs.

4. understandably you may not be aware that there are several criminal complaints formally emplaced with the AFP and relevant ministers relating to the war crimes recently confirmed by the RAAC driver and his mates that conflict with the formal reports by the decorated action commander and the subject of formal concerns and criminal cover-ups raised by then General Tom Daly with Brigadier Pearson.

5. if I am correctly advised, the 2 ex SAS lads who communicated with State Government Officers and appear to have questioned the integrity of the Murdoch publication, “the War Within” and its author, are now the subject of AFP criminal complaints and civil redress inquiries by the publishers. All publishers must be satisfied that at law, they can validate the content of their publications. If these fellows were encourage by others to take this criminal action, it will be interesting to see if these “mates”, also contribute to the costs that the publisher will expect to be reimbursed.

6. are you aware that criminal complaints have been initiated against some the executives of the TPI, VVFA, RSL National and Queensland and Rockhampton relative to these and related matters?


In fairness to Joe Catanzaro who has also acted in good faith, will you copy this to him?

Stay well Richard and please keep up the EXCELLENT work and momentum emplaced by Pete Ramsay.

Cheers, Barry


* Tate_in_paper.jpg (148.4 KB, 352x800 - viewed 917 times.)
« Last Edit: Wednesday12August2009 by Cassius » Logged

Fergus
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« Reply #4 on: Wednesday12August2009 »

Let me iterate, “2nd D&E Pl” was a nick name given to a group of “in transit” soldiers who were posted to HQ 1ATF and allocated to the D&E Pl by the Commander HQ 1ATF. Some were eventually transferred to other Infantry Battalions and others remained at HQ 1ATF, it is as simply as that. There is also no doubt that these men were typical Australian Diggers who did their duty, and there is no doubt that some of them were at Thua Tich, however, despite what he has said, Don Tate was not there on the night of the battle.

It is total fallacy that some soldiers of the “2nd D&E Pl" have been refused DVA benefits because their unit was illegally and corruptly raised by dishonest officers. That is a childish embellishment given by Tate to add emotion to his crazy theories. Give me the name of just one ex soldier who has had a claim rejected under these circumstances and I promise to fully investigate and report the findings on this forum.

Tate’s allegation of corruption and cover-up is simply baloney put forward by Tate to create some news worth controversy to help sell his book.

Tate has burned good people including his mates in his book marketing campaign, those of note are Jim Riddle who refused to co-operate with Tate after realizing he was just a dupe. More recently his staunch supporter and fellow D&E Pl soldier Ted Colmer has come to understand what Tate is, and in a publicly distributed email has said:

To: 'Allen Petersen' ; Fergus Fairfax
Sent: Monday, 10 August 2009 2:15 PM
Subject: Re VETERAN'S BATTLE FOR LOST UNIT

G’day Allen,

What a greedy self consuming gorging MONSTER we’ve allowed to incessantly dupe us, who is certainly not qualified to comment on matters he didn’t witness, or take part in.

Don Tate was constructively part of this platoon but never left the wire for Thua Tich or en route: 328 ambush to Xuyen Moc.

When I catch my breath and have a drink, much more will follow from Feb’ 2007?

No atrocities were committed at Thua Tich; Xuyen Moc or elsewhere, during the course of my tour of duty Vietnam: 1968 – 1969.

I have every single e-mail ever written since Feb’2007; painting an ugly trail of deception and trickery perpetrated by this person, and obviously designed to exploit the reputations of real warriors, with totally fabricated incidents for “sensationalist” and fictional book marketing purposes. 

I guess I will be on the AVO and litigation list?

PLEASE ATTEMPT TO PROVE ME WRONG THOUGH!!

TC (Ted Colmer)

Ted Colmer has stated in writing many times that he hates me with a passion and for him to come out and make the above statement about Tate indicates that he must now hate Tate more than he hates me. There are truths that can never be taken from Ted Colmer, he was a combat soldier, he was at Thua Tich and at many other places, he was as brave as any soldier that ever went to Vietnam.

I fail to understand how ex soldiers can give any credence to Tate’s claims of corruption and cover up in relation to the existence of a "2nd D&E Pl" and for Mike Kelly, a Government Minister to publicly support Tate, was indeed a great blooper by Minister Kelly. Despite Kelly’s input, the “2nd D&E Pl" never existed except as a “nick name”. It will never be recorded as anything other than a nick name (if that) in the history of the Vietnam war

I wait with interest any further revelations that may come from my former nemesis Ted Colmer.

Aye

Fergus
« Last Edit: Wednesday12August2009 by Fergus » Logged
Wozza
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« Reply #3 on: Tuesday11August2009 »

Good to see that the real truth is coming out on Tate,how he has hoodwinked the veteran community is something that none of the decent veterans expected,but we got caught in his deceitful plan to extract monies into his own pocket from fellow veterans with his "book of lies"I challenged this dickhead to a face to face in his own home town during my Xmas visit to my family  up there.Yes I happen to come from the same area that he comes from.He never showed his face like he said he would. yet I know he was home for this period. let me tell you that Tate was once a teacher(or was suppose to be)at Dapto high school on the South coast of N.S.W.Well he was a complete idiot and a dickhead then when he mascaraed as a teacher of children,and there are many a person who knew him in this role who thought what a Wanker this clown is. and now that he has some Veteran centers wanting him to visit them WELL one can only wonder just what dribble is running out of his mouth.Stay clear I do.
Wozza
« Last Edit: Wednesday12August2009 by Fergus » Logged
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« Reply #2 on: Tuesday11August2009 »

Thanks Ted!  Richard Williams of the VVAA WA is being attacked now for daring to imply that the veteran and ex-service community has some doubts about the issues raised by Don Tate.  Tate is choosing to defend on the premise that the attack is on the existence of the "2nd D & E Platoon".  This makes a lot of sense of course, because it's the strongest string to his bow.  Many of the others are more fragile.
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krt1.
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« Reply #1 on: Tuesday11August2009 »

Ted, Welcome aboard the Good Ship of Truth and Honesty. The sea is rough, the tucker is spares, but the friendship is genuine.
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Ethelred
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« on: Tuesday11August2009 »

Ted Colmer has up to now been a staunch and vitriolic Tate supporter and apologist. Now, after what seems an inner conversion to the truth, Ted has finally said Tate was not at the Thua Tich ambush and that he [Tate ] has used the Vietnam Veteran community for his own financial gain.

Personally I would like to congratulateTed for having the courage and honesty to stand up and speak the truth. We should not underestimate the impact of Ted's revelations because Ted Colmer was one of the key Tate supporters.

It is all very simple. Tate was NOT at the Thua Tich ambush, and his statements that he was are the sole basis for all he contends.

We now have an SAS member who was at the Thua Tich ambush area and Ted Colmer who was in the Thua Tich ambush saying Tate was NOT part of the ambush.

From: remloc  (Ted Colmer)

To: 'Allen Petersen' ; Fergus Fairfax
Sent: Monday, 10 August 2009 2:15 PM
Subject: Re VETERAN'S BATTLE FOR LOST UNIT


G’day Allen,

What a greedy self consuming gorging MONSTER we’ve allowed to incessantly dupe us, who is certainly not qualified to comment on matters he didn’t witness, or take part in.

Don Tate was constructively part of this platoon but never left the wire for Thua Tich or en route: 328 ambush to Xuyen Moc.


When I catch my breath and have a drink, much more will follow from Feb’ 2007?

No atrocities were committed at Thua Tich; Xuyen Moc or elsewhere, during the course of my tour of duty Vietnam:

1968 – 1969.

I have every single e-mail ever written since Feb’2007; painting an ugly trail of deception and trickery perpetrated by this person, and obviously designed to exploit the reputations of real warriors, with totally fabricated incidents for “sensationalist” and fictional book marketing purposes. 

I guess I will be on the AVO and litigation list?

PLEASE ATTEMPT TO PROVE ME WRONG THOUGH!!

TC (Ted Colmer)
« Last Edit: Tuesday11August2009 by Samsung » Logged
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