AUSTRALIAN VETERAN MATTERS
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Tuesday29September2020

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
Wiltshire CEO of Conspiracy Theory Central
2,371 Posts in 149 Topics by 217 Members
Latest Member: Sweesiultew
* Home Help Search Login Register
+  AUSTRALIAN VETERAN MATTERS
|-+  AUSTRALIAN VETERAN MATTERS FORUM
| |-+  THE MAD GALAHS FORUM--This forum does not necessarily reflect AVMs opinion. CLICK HERE FOR AVMS OPINION
| | |-+  DON TATE, WHERE ARE THE DOCS?.
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: DON TATE, WHERE ARE THE DOCS?.  (Read 10731 times)
Fergus Fairfax
Guest
« Reply #5 on: Sunday22November2009 »

AN OPEN CHALLENGE TO DON TATE, RICHARD BIGWOOD, KEVIN LLOYD-THOMAS 

Since early 2007 various former members of 4 RAR in Vietnam who were posted to HQ 1 ATF in 1969 have been trying to rewrite Australia's Military history and cement a place for themselves as heroes, unsung heroes, of what they claim was an elite special Forces Platoon.

 
These wannabes claim they did a job the SASR were unsuited for and afraid to do. They claim they were involved in one of the biggest Battles of the Vietnam War. They claim to have alone confronted what amounted to an enemy Army [ their words]. They claim this “elite” Platoon killed more enemy than any other Australian Infantry Platoon during the Vietnam war. They claim various of their members should have been decorated for Heroism and that instead undeserving cowards and favourites received their Decorations. They claim there has been a huge corruption of Australia's War history which has been engineered by many Senior Officers, Politicians and others. They claim War crimes were committed by Australian Soldiers, yet have failed to provide conclusive evidence to prove this slur on all Australian Vietnam Veterans.They claim the official records of Australia's Vietnam involvement were deliberately altered to write out the existence of their alleged 2nd D&E Platoon. In effect they are claiming any Johnny come lately can appear out of the blue, produce spurious evidence, which they refuse to release in full for all Veterans to digest, and though it disagrees with War history as verified by War diaries, After Action Reports and other official documents,that their version of our Military history should replace the verified history. If this is the way War history is to be written then all War history must be regarded as a farce.
 

We publicly challenge those names as follows
 

Don Tate to swear an Affidavit before a Judge that he was at Thua Tich on the night ambush of 29 May 1969.
 

Richard "Rick"  Bigwood to swear an Affidavit before a Judge that he was at Thua Tich on the night ambush of 29 May 1969.
 

Kevin Lloyd Thomas to swear an Affidavit before a Judge that he was at Thua Tich on the night ambush of 29 May 1969.
 

All three to swear individual Affidavits before a Judge that Australian Soldiers committed War Crimes near Thua Tich around 30 May 1969.
 

All three to swear individual Affidavits before a Judge that one or all witnessed Australian Soldiers sling between 3 and 5 enemy bodies up to the back of an APC and that those bodies were transported in that fashion, and not bound securely to the top of the Cavalry vehicle, to Xuyen Moc village and displayed to local villagers and that one or more of those bodies was headless.

No changing subjects, attacking the characters of others, debates or any other obfuscations will be accepted.


Failure to produce the complete evidence which this group says exists of its daring escapades, and failure to produce sworn Affidavits will be taken as a sure sign that the Australian Veteran community, the AWM. The Australian Military History Unit, Politicians, the Defence Department, the media, Murdoch books and others have been lied to.

The above mentioned may send their Affidavits and complete evidence to  admin@austvetmatters.net 

AVM.


Tate's educational qualifications.

Tate's teacher's ticket wasn't worth a cracker until he got a job teaching. How did he get a teacher's position? He told us all not long ago.  He finally bullied his way into a position by claiming discrimination against him for being a wounded (what else) war veteran while women and minorities (maybe even "ethnic minorities", I could stand corrected on that) were handed positions without question.

He bullied and barged around the place until someone gave in just to get him out the door a la Mike Kelly...He got his job and looked what happened.  He stiffed the school tuckshop, how and why? Wounded heroes don't pay for pies with extra sauce. Especially handsome devils like him who had a way with the Mums working there.

His ability as a teacher or maybe his over-friendliness with students cause revolt in the parent ranks. Not a common occurrence, was it?

Who wrote the final draft of his book?  It wasn't him, that's for sure.

Watch his videos for an idea of his grasp on English. Also note a lisp. In that one minor speech impediment Don Tate reminds me of Mike Tyson. A kid who was bullied for being different and turned nasty in his teen years. The comparison ends right there.

Mike can fight like a thrashing machine while this dog runs to hide behind his wife's skirt and girly AVOs.

BC
Logged
cavman
Full Member


Karma: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 11


« Reply #4 on: Monday20July2009 »

Bluebell Sunray C/S 98A has put the allegations made by that weasel Tate to the sword, and well done too.

I would however wish to amend one comment Bluebell made.  Tom Arrowsmith's C/S was not  fitted with a T50 turret and twin .30 cals as stated.  I was in the Sqn at that time on my 1st tour (Nasho). 
All vehicles  with senior callsigns, i.e., SHQ APCs, Tp Ldrs, Tp Offrs, Section Commanders - these vehicles were still fitted with an Okinawa-pattern gun shield and .50 cal .
Mortar cars and LAD callsigns were also fitted with gunshields and mounted a .50 cal and these particular vehicles remained in that configuration until the whole thing closed down in 1972. 

The fitting-out of the unit's M113A1s with an all-T50 fleet was still in progress.  And what a crock that turret was too!!!!

Tom's vehicle C/S 20A, differed  from the other gunshield tracks in one very major way - it was  fitted with the US-made bathtub armour which all Yank tracks had fitted, to give all-round protection to the commander.  Tom's track  was the only vehicle in 2 troop and in fact the Sqn, that had that modification. By the time I got back with A sqn in my 2nd tour in 1971, all vehicles in the Sqn were ftted with a T50 consisting of a .50cal turret mounted  (senior callsigns) and a flex .30 on top with all Alpha and Bravo callsigns fitted out with twin 30cals -one flex and one turret-mounted.  As previously mentioned. the only other vehicles that kept the gun shield were the specialist vehicles -  Fitters tracks (the 98 callsigns) and all Mortar Tracks -for obvious reasons.  A photo of Tom, seated behind his .50 cal at can be found accompanying the citation for his MID at [color=blue]www.australian-armour.com/citations-3CAV.html [/color]   A close-up of the same photo - showing Tom in profile, appears in Lex Mc Aulay's book, "Contact:  Australians in Vietnam" (1989), Hutchinson Australia at p,. 108.  From the referencing that accompanies the photos on that page, the AWM reference appears to be BEL/69/366/VN.

Keep up the good work, AVM.
« Last Edit: Monday20July2009 by cavman » Logged
Zion
Administrator
Active Member


Karma: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 372


« Reply #3 on: Sunday19July2009 »

From: Barry Billing
To: Allen Petersen ; Fergus Fairfax
Cc:xxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 8:27 PM
Subject: Fw: my business


Could you please distribute on your e-mail nets.

Mr Tate I reply to you on the public forum.  I stand by what I said on the Channel 7 Newa.  As far as being involved in YOUR buisness I never had and have no wish to.

The debate over your statements and e-mails have brought much distress within the Vietnam Community.

Please do not communicate with me please I have no wish to be involved in you or your book.  As far as my Army career is concerned I have never kept it secret and I have always been upfront about it.  Not like some.

I POST AN E-MAIL FROM A VETERAN SENT TO ME BELOW ALL THE OTHER COMMENT

Barry Billing


----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Billing
To: Donald Tate
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: my business


I return this e-mail and treat it with the contempt it deserves.  I have now put you on block

Barry Billing

----- Original Message -----
From: Donald Tate
To: advocatevvaansw
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 3:37 PM
Subject: my business


Given your personal army history, keep your nose out of my business Billings. And keep your mouth shut.


Don Tate
author, "The War Within" 
·        "...narrated with vivid authority, (it) at once disarms, repels, gives hope, as its narrator summons inner demons beyond anything that the war in Vietnam had made."   - The Sydney Morning Herald


----- Original Message -----
From:
To: vv Barry Billing
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 12:56 PM
Subject: Don Tate


Bazza,,,Saw U on the Tele...thought U may B interested in these emails...
I have sent this email to a mate of mine at the AWM...


A few comments about this poofter are below the Sun-Herald story.

Phantom force secrets

No more lies ... Don Tate, holding his controversial book The War Within, says it's time the truth came out about his platoon in Vietnam. Photo: Adam Rainford

Matthew Benns
July 12, 2009
AUSTRALIAN soldiers dragged corpses behind armoured cars in a Vietnam war atrocity that officials have spent 40 years denying ever happened.

Now a request by the Vietnamese Government to locate the bodies of Vietcong soldiers killed in action may finally uncover the truth of what happened in the villages of Thua Thich and Xuyen Moc in May, 1969.

Don Tate, now 60, was a member of the 2nd D and E platoon when the atrocities were committed.

"Mate, this has been a bullshit cover-up for 40 years and it is now finally coming into the open," he said. "They will never find the graves because there aren't any."

It was only after Mr Tate's book, The War Within, was published last year that the phantom 2nd D and E platoon was finally acknowledged as even having existed. Parliamentary secretary for defence support Mike Kelly confirmed in July that the platoon had not been formally raised but had been born in battle.

Mr Tate, from Shellharbour, south of Wollongong, said the phantom force of 39 Diggers ambushed a much larger number of Vietcong in May 1969 in one of the war's biggest platoon-sized battles. Official reports claimed the bodies of the dead Vietcong were wrapped in green ponchos and buried.

But Mr Tate, who was a private in the platoon, said the bodies were dragged into a crater filled with claymore mines and C4 explosive and given an "engineers' burial" - they were blown up.

"There are no bodies left for them to find," said Mr Tate.

Another five bodies were tied by the ankles to the back of an armoured personnel carrier and dragged to a local village as a warning to Vietcong sympathisers.

In his book Mr Tate wrote: "Eventually the remaining bodies were dumped in the centre of Xuyen Moc, headless. They'd been banging around at the back of the APC till they fell off. God knows where the heads ended up."

Photographs taken at the time show the horrified reaction of villagers as the bodies were dragged behind the APC.

Following Mr Kelly's official acknowledgement last year, the Vietnamese Government approached the Australian embassy in Hanoi and requested help in locating the burial sites of all Vietnamese soldiers killed in action.

The Australian embassy's defence attache, Colonel Stuart Dodds, contacted members of the 2nd D and E Platoon and requested information on the location of the graves.

Mr Tate said the Australian soldiers had been acting under orders. "To cover that atrocity up the military establishment has wiped the official record of 39 Australian Diggers, denying some of them access to war pensions. Finally the truth can come out."

The driver of the APC, Allan Stanton, who was from a different cavalry unit, earlier this year published a book, Before I Forget, that confirmed the accounts of the 2nd D and E Platoon members.

Vietnam veteran, retired Brigadier Neil Weekes, a member of the Prime Minister's Advisory Council on Ex-Service matters, said he was aware of the issue but could only offer a personal view. "I think there seems to be some controversy there and it needs to be resolved at a pretty high level," he said.

Brigadier George Mansford, who was a captain in the Australian Army Training Team which won four Victoria Crosses in Vietnam, advised against looking for the graves. "Some things are best left alone. If what we hear is true then it will certainly be rubbing salt in the wound," he said.

A spokeswoman for the Australian War Memorial said there was no "official view" of the "successful operation" at Thua Thich. "The operational records and veterans' accounts indicate conflicting views over the manner of disposal of enemy bodies," she said.
end

Have you seen page 3 of the SMH. He is confusing two different ambushes and has obviously got his story from someone else. The bit about the heads falling off is an outright lie and there were seven bodies not five. The bit about the engineers burial is sort off right but if he wants the facts, he should ask Brig Gen Sandy Pearson who was choppered in the morning after the SAS/APC ambush for the show. The bodies bought into Xuyen Moc village were decently buried.


As you know, I was wounded at Thua Tich during the ambush.I sat behind a .50 cal MG on C/S 98A until first light. All Cav personnel at the ambush were part of #2 Troop, commanded by Capt Tom Arrowsmith, a fine Tp Cdr and leader of his men. Tom was never CO of 3 Cav Regt. That job belonged to Maj Ron Rooks. Normie Rowe was never driver or crew cdr for Tom Arrowsmith. Normie was with #1 Troop as driver of 12B. I used a Super 9mm movie camera to shoot footage of the ambush aftermath including Brig Sandy Pearson arriving by chopper, met by Capt Arrowsmith. Movie footage is now on DVD and used by the AWM in Canberra. I have been questioned by AWM officials at a photographic display here on the Gold Coast re Thua Tich ambush and my comments tape recorded on a 45 min interview. After Brig Pearson arrived, I was dusted off to hosp in Vung Tau for repairs to my left ankle which copped shrapnel from AK47 firing at my barrel flash. All VC bodies were buried soon after. This talk of dragging bodies and shooting dogs is absolute rubbish. These days Tom Arrowsmith lives in xxxxx and is not in good health. I have admiration and respect for him and would not like to see his blood pressure rise because of Tate's story. I see Norm and other Cav guys quite frequently and they agree with me.Tom never had a sawn-off shotgun. He wore a 9mm Browning, like myself, and had twin .30 cal MG's on his APC callsign 20A; also SLR and/or M16.I have photos of the said vehicle. This whole godforsaken media story by Tate is purely and simply to sell his book.Honesty and commonsense will eventually prevail and Tate will self destruct.


There is a website called Australian Veteran Matters at

http://austvetmatters.net/avmforum/index.php

where Mr Tate gets plenty of mention for the so called heroics. He wrote the story claiming he was there then later said he could not remember, most unreliable.

It is a shame that this sort of drivel gets back to Vietnam. To me it would seem to be a very shallow exercise to promote the book.

Others here simply go about the task of helping the Vietnamese find graves quietly and without fuss which the locals appreciate. Claims of blowing up bodies etc I believe are just rubbish.

There would be more witnesses than Mr Tate who said he was there but could not remember but thought he was because someone told him he was. So far no one else has backed up his claims.

I have to smile at the claim of it being one of the war's biggest platoon sized battles.. what a load of crap. Many platoons fought in much larger actions than this ambush at Thua Tich that Tate may or may not have been involved in.

This bloke, Tate, is a know lunatic and liar. It could be that the bodies he refers to were dragged in from another contact but I would think that highly unlikely. His story about the heads being detached is complete bullshit. The heads on the 7 bodies transported into Xuyen Moc village were, apart from the (VC female medic's), intact. She had been caught under the "pile" and her head had worn away on an angle from the bottom left hand side of her chin to the right temple. She had been killed by a 50 calibre machine gun through her back which removed her left breast on the way out. The rest of the bodies were male and; were more or less intact. The more badly affected bodies were , indeed, the subject of the "engineer's burial". You will recall that it was mainly female villagers who were waiting for the bodies and upon their arrival they washed their faces and it was obvious that they knew them and that they most likely came from Xuyen Moc. The photo in the SMH was not from this event. I am very concerned that such a dreadful lie could reflect badly on Vietnam Veterans (even though the true story is not something to be proud of!) Culturally, most Vietnamese would think very poorly of the heads being lost, as it was important to them from their Budhist traditions, to have their bodies buried intact. It could have serious ramifications for Australian tourists travelling over there.

You might remember that we were sent to Xuyen Moc as the SAS were patrolling the area between there and the Thua Tich rubber plantation to the north-east. They needed someone to liase with the ARVN Artillery unit in the compound and, with the ATF. An SAS signalman from 152 Sig Sqn attached to 3Squadron SAS, was based there but could not handle the job 24 hours a day.

(Additionally he had got well and truly pissed the night before and the MACV boss wanted him removed). They had a couple of 105 howitzers there but were hopeless at using them. The SAS patrols did not want their support but wanted them to get clearance before firing harrassment shots willy nilly into the jungle. They did use them earlier in the piece but their aim convinced them that they were probably not on our side! (If I lived in such an exposed place, I think I would have switched too!) Remember the night one of the ARVN on picket duty opened up with a Thompson Sub-Machine gun in our front bunker and killed a few of his own? What a shit of a place!
« Last Edit: Sunday19July2009 by Cassius » Logged

krt1.
Active Member


Karma: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 109


« Reply #2 on: Monday27April2009 »

Don, If you have the guts of a "Linie" then put the Doc's up. If you don't then how did you get so shot up?Huh Please don't tell me you were a "Gofer-Boy"
Logged
cicero
Active Member


Karma: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 44


« Reply #1 on: Sunday19April2009 »

YES, that is what all who questions TATE have been asking for for several years...COLMER is the researcher who has been asked the same....its not hard to PDF the material, and send it out.......

Yet, they still refuse.......TATE will need to produce the material ........failure will show he has no evidence at all...........

Go for it TATE, COLMER....show it to us.......not tampered with, no deletions, no additions, no interlineations   .......just do it

Logged
Mowgli
Guest
« on: Sunday19April2009 »

One day he might come up with something that makes this new topic edundant. I'll keep tossing in his most recent escape and evade emails until we hit the jackpot.  That would be proof he, personally, was at Thua Tich - Xuyen Moc etc and witnessed war crimes in progress, or an admission he was nowhere near AOs Scorpion-Frog, 28 -31 May 69.

Someone calling himself Peter Edwards of Cav wrote a rather insightful and cutting post to Petersen's forum directed at Tate. Unfortunately the person used what appears to a be a bodgy name and that has lessened the post's impact.

Tate replied.

"Just more bastardised fact to create confusion in the minds of those who really don't know the score and believe any tripe this rag-tail lot dish out. But it's a timely letter, Mr Edwards.
What you've done, is provide me with the means to pursue you as far as I can in the courts- and those who know me also know that I don't just talk about doing so. I'm decisive, and I take action. Watch your mailbox. More importantly, doing so will also provide me with the trigger to force the tabling of all sorts of documentation pertaining to the 2nd D&E Platoon. And that won't come too soon"


So after all the verbal abuse and hiding behind AVOs Mr. Tate is finally going to sue some poor bastard. Good, some action at last, maybe.
What many vets and I want to see is those docs on the table, 1 or 101 docs, I want the lot. We'll keep asking the question "Where are the docs?" and publishing his evasions until he comes up with them.

Today's selected retort.

The subject line refers to laying the docs on the table now.

warvet_69@yahoo.com (To BC)
date   19 April 2009 12:03
subject   Re: THIS AND ONLY THIS FOLLOWED BY AN APOLOGY

Hey dickhead...you don't tell me to do anything, anytime- EVER!
WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?
The documentation HAS ALREADY been placed before the Army History Unit, before senior military leaders, before senior DEFENCE BUREAUCRATS, and BEFORE POLITICIANS.
Mugs like you, barking away like a little doggie behind a picket fence don't get the right to ask me to do anything. Or any other man from that 2nd D&E Platoon.
Let me repeat what Major-General Pearson said: "...the group unofficially termed the '2nd D&E Platoon' did conduct themselves with distinction..."
And I was part of that group. Never dixie-bashed for one day.
You see, dickwit, you're just too plain stupid to grasp those simple details. Or is it because your own service (if there was any) was devoid of any combat whatsoever- and you can't stand the thought of knowing your PTSD comes from a fear of dropping plates or cutting yourself with a spoon, or tripping over a rock doing emu bobs like one of your other 'mates' did?"


Mowgli
Logged
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!