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Don Tate Fraud Liar Wannabe Closet Paedophile and Closet Gay
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Author Topic: Don "Stumbles" Tate  (Read 324323 times)
CD
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« Reply #269 on: Sunday07February2010 »

We all know how good Little Donny Boy is at NOT answering questions, well here we go again, HE is asking/questioning the service of someone else who spent a bloody side more time both in Viet Nam and the service..........AND, guess what? He wants to write a book.  Huh


From: Donald Tate
To: Allen Petersen
Sent: Saturday, 6 February 2010 2:18 PM
Subject: Barry Billings' War Service
 
I am in the process of writing a new book which will deal with various individuals I have come across in my lifetime,
and who have had some impact. There are plenty...
 
One of these is a Barry Billings, an executive member of the VVAA.
 
I have a resume purportedly written by Billings in which he states that he did:
- two years in Vietnam with the 110 Signal Squadron
- and 4 years with 126 Signal Squadron in "Special Forces"
 
Can anyone verify those units, and elaborate on the "Special Forces" he served with?
 
Regards

Don Tate
 

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Zion
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« Reply #268 on: Wednesday03February2010 »

From: xxxxxxxxx
To: Austvetmatters
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 11:47 AM
Subject: Judas Tate at it again


Dunny has been engaged in yet another episode of self flagellation and glory seeking.

Here is Dunny Boy's latest self praising missive. Whew!!! the gall of the absent hero of Thua Thich! But perhaps Tate might claim the 'nevers' but lets list a few of the dids:

.did claim that senior officers, unnamed, rewrote/altered military history but has failed to produce ANY evidence to support this ridiculous claim.

.did claim the existence of an unknown, unlisted unit when the truth is that this phantom unit NEVER existed except in his own delusional way.

.did claim the disposal of bodies by explosives but again no proof.

.did claim that he was at Thua Tich but evidence from his fellow soldiers proved that he was not.

.did claim that 'headless' bodies were dragged behind an APC by producing a doctored AWM photograph.

.did claim that photos proved he was at Thua Thich yet again producing fraudulent AWM photos to back his claim.

.did claim his so-called movie is worth $100,000 but the AWM values it more accurately. Probably its true worth is a highly inflated $2.00 - anyway the thing is mostly fake with many poses by Tate pretending to be a hero none of which have any military or historical significance .

.did claim and continues to do so, that his publishers are about to launch legal action against those who criticize Tate - no action has occurred to date.

.did launch legal action to sue but his case was thrown out of court with expenses

.did claim to be a TPI yet embarks on a nation wide campaign to sell his book - how come he is a TPI if he has an income?

Moreover how come he has a tax payer funded vehicle which he uses to earn income?

.did claim his stupid book was selling like hotcakes and would make the best seller list. In reality his book has been a dismal failure; it has been heavily discounted, for eg, a Canberra retailer had three copies several months ago and guess what - they are still there even at a give away price!

.did claim that the Federal Government recognised the existence of 2nd D&E Pl - no it did not - only dim witted Kelly did. The authority for this sort of claim is the AWM not a politician.

.did claim that  Since no “official” record of the 2nd D&E Platoon existed, in later years men from the platoon were unable to draw upon their experiences in that ambush as a reason for psychological damage- thus were denied war pensions.  Complete and utter piffle as these men were part of the 1ATF D&E Platoon - Dunny babe get it through your thick cranium that your phantom 2nd D&E Pl NEVER existed except in your own convoluted imagination. DVA has also rejected your statement.
.did claim that everybody who disagrees with his concocted fantasies are paedophiles

etc,etc,etc

From: Donald Tate
To: Allen Petersen
Sent: Thursday, 14 January 2010 11:40 AM
Subject: The Quality of a Man's War Service


I have been attacked relentlessly by fellow veterans about my relative abilities as a soldier. WHAT HIDE - INSUFFICIENT SPACE HERE TO LIST TATE'S ACCUSATIONS AGAINST TRUE VETERANS. LIBERAL DOSES OF BEING ACCUSED AS SEXUAL DEVIANTS, OR BEING MEMBERS OF A PEODOPHILE RING, ETC, ETC. Most of my accusers do not have the courage to sign their names to their letters about me- which tells me all I need to know about them. Apparently, event though I served continuously as a rifleman in Vietnam- across four units  NO YOU DIDN'T DUNNY BOY - ONLY THREE (3) - 2 D&E PL DID NOT; HAS NOT;  EXISTED ACCEPT IN THE VACUUM BETWEEN YOUR EARS!!! during my tour of duty (and was wounded in action in an infantry battalion attacking a Viet Cong bunker system!)  MY GOD HERE WE GO AGAIN FOR THE TEN THOUSANDTH TIME - IN CASE READERS OF TATE'S CRAP ARE NOT AWARE HE WAS BLOODYWELL WOUNDED IN VIETNAM!!!!!!!   my cowardly accusers like to use my freely-admitted error of leaving a bolt out of my rifle (on just one occasion) as 'evidence' of my poor soldiering. QUITE SO!! GREAT SOLDIER SETS A FINE EXAMPLE EH! AND DON'T FORGET HE DID NOT KNOW HOW TO CLEAN A RIFLE EITHER (OR HIS BOOTS)


However, they neglect to note that I:

-        never ‘fragged’ an officer - NEITHER DID 60,000 OTHER VETS

-        never murdered anyone, in fact - NEITHER DID 60,000 OTHER VETS

-        never caused a death through negligence - PROVE IT - REMEMBER THE AMBUSH AND LOST BOLT?

-        never caused an injury through negligence - PROVE IT - REMEMBER THE AMBUSH AND LOST BOLT?
-        never accidentally killed anyone - WE DON'T KNOW THIS EITHER

-       never accidentally caused injury to anyone - ALL THE ABOVE APPLY

-        never struck a superior officer, NCO, or a fellow soldier - WHAT NO BIFFFO? BUT THEN HE WAS SUCH A POPULAR FELLOW OUR DUNNY. THIS SERIOUS OMISSION COULD BE EASILY RECTIFIED BY THOSE WHO HE HAS DEFAMED - DARE YOU, DUNNY, TO MET WITH ANY OF THEM!

-        never went AWOL - TOO BUSY DICKSIE BASHING - PROBABLY COULDN'T FIND HIS WAY OUT OF HIS TENT ANYWAY.

-        never pretended ‘sickness’ or injury so as to get out of duty. BUT EVERYBODY IN AUSTRALIA HAS BEEN TOLD BY TATE HIMSELF COUNTLESS TIMES THAT HE WAS WOUNDED IN AN ATTACK ON AN ENEMY BUNKER. HE HAS PRODUCED A IN-PATIENT RECORD TO PROVE THIS ACTION, HOWEVER, THE NOTATION 'ASSAULTING AN ENEMY BUNKER' WAS PROBABLY PROVIDED BY TATE AS THE HOSPITAL STAFF WERE NOT AT THE SCENE OF TATE'S PURPORTED HEROIC ASSAULT. THIS HOSPITAL RECORD CAN ONLY CONFIRM A GSW AND NOT THE CIRCUMSTANCE UNDER WHICH IT WAS INFLICTED. MORE ON THIS BELOW.

-        never stole from fellow soldiers - THE LIES TOLD IN HIS DISGRACEFUL BOOK PROVES THAT TATE IS DELUSIONAL - THIS OVERPRICED FAIRY TALE OF WOE IS REALLY AN ATTEMPT TO OBTAIN MONEY BY DECEPTION.  BUT HE HAS ATTEMPTED TO STEAL THEIR MEMORIES BY SUBSTITUTING THEM WITH HIS OWN RUTHLESS LIES.

-        never charged with brawling - NO: HE WAS WOUNDED DIDN'T YOU KNOW! THIS CAN BE RECTIFIED AS ABOVE.

-        never charged with drunkenness, or disorderly conduct WELL!!! THE PERFECT SOLDIER AND HERO BUT WAS WOUNDED.

-        never smoked marijuana, or took drugs - HIS WOUNDS PREVENTED THIS! BUT THEN HE APPEARS TO HAVE TAKEN UP MARY JANE BEFORE HE WROTE HIS TALE - I MEAN REALLY;  WHO WOULD HAVE CONCOCTED SUCH GARBAGE OTHER THAN A PSYCHO ON DRUGS! 

-   never charged with insubordination A KNUCKLE SANDWICH FROM HIS CPL OR SGT WOULD HAVE SOLVED ANY PROBLEM!


-        never had any self-inflicted injuries MMMMM!!!! THIS COULD BE AN INTERESTING STATEMENT - MAY WARRANT AN INVESTIGATION!! DUNNY BOY WAS THE ALLEGED ROUND (AK47) SUBJECTED TO FORENSIC ANALYSIS AS THE ABILITY OF MEDICAL STAFF TO IDENTIFY SUCH A ROUND IS PROBLEMATICAL. WOULDN'T REALLY BE INTERESTED ANYWAY - THEIR TASK IS TO PROVIDE MEDICAL HELP NOT ID BULLETS! IT IS HIGHLY LIKELY THAT THE ROUND WHICH APPARENTLY MADE A MESS OF YOUR HIP WOULD HAVE BEEN SERIOUSLY DAMAGED/DISTORTED RENDERING IT UNRECOGNIZABLE WITHOUT THOROUGH FORENSIC TESTING. COME CLEAN BOYO - WAS THE OFFENDING BULLET OR BITS THEREOF RECOVERED? IE, DID THE ROUND PASS THROUGH YOUR HIP AND VANISH INTO THE BUNKER? ALL VERY SUS! ANY WITNESSES TATE BOY?    


 

In fact, during my 204 days in Vietnam as an infantryman, the sum total of my transgressions was:

 

-        leaving a bolt out of my rifle once, freely admitted (no charge laid)

-        losing my ID on my first day in Vietnam (fined $10)

-        charged, on one occasion, with having a dirty rifle (fined $10)


And I wasn't "press-ganged" into fighting for my country- I volunteered. What's more I volunteered for Vietnam. DEAR DUNNY BOY YOU ARE BEING DELUSIONAL YET AGAIN - ALL MEMBERS OF THE ARA ON ENLISTMENT AGREE TO SERVE WHERE NEEDED - NO VOLUNTARY ACTION REQUIRED.  NO PERSON WAS 'PRESS GANGED'; NOT EVEN NATIONAL SERVICEMEN WHOSE SERVICE TATE DENIGRATES BY THE USE OF SUCH TERMINOLOGY. MOST NS, TATE, WERE WITHOUT DOUBT FAR BETTER SOLDIERS THAN YOU EVER WERE OR INDEED PRETEND TO BE. 

How many of my accusers could lay claim to such a record? PROBABLY ALL THOSE WHO SERVED IN VIETNAM! BUT THEN AGAIN FEW WOULD ACKNOWLEDGE OF HAVING SUCH AN UNBLEMISHED RECORD; WOW!!!!

Donny "wounded in action" Tate


WE INTERRUPT THIS PROGRAM TO BRING BREAKING NEWS - TATE WAS WOUNDED IN VIETNAM!!!!!!!




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Ric T
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« Reply #267 on: Tuesday15December2009 »

I'm gonna toss a coin to see if I'll buy the 'book'.

Heads - I won't, Tails I ..... Hang on:  I'll flip again.... Roll Eyes
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Tooligie
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« Reply #266 on: Tuesday15December2009 »

I suppose it would be too ambitious of me to expect any other response
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Nuidat68
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« Reply #265 on: Saturday28November2009 »

Ray Martins book sold 10,000 in its first WEEK, go buy it for a good read someone who has helped so many from a bush boy to media super star.

The kid from the outback of  western NSW was 11 days short of his number rolling out in the vietnam conscription so like he says in the book !!! It could have been me in vietnam instead of the ABC office in New York. What a job he has had interviewing the best looking sheila's in the world. Now thats a little better than some ugly old Nun tryin to grab ya old fella LOL. Wink

Well im off for a walk across the beautiful Harbour Bridge.Enjoy your weekend MEN. Cool
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CD
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« Reply #264 on: Friday27November2009 »

That must be the 10,000th time we have now read that little Donny boy got in the way of a bullet. Poor diddums.
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Ethelred
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« Reply #263 on: Friday27November2009 »

Tate is the arch opportunist. He will use anybody and anything to underpin his opinion of himself and his sickening delusion that he and he alone has suffered because of the Vietnam War. Here he is using somebody's death to score points. He has even dragged his poor wife around the country and subjected her to the turmoil and angts his behaviour has engendered. You see Tate people don't despise you because you wrote a book, they despise you because of the lies in the book and for your vile filthy public behaviour.

Here is the latest from this chronic liar, user and conman.

From: Donald Tate
To: david.watson
Cc: Allen Petersen ; Bernie ; tjimw1@iprimus.com.au
Sent: Thursday, 26 November 2009 4:32 PM
Subject: Re The death of Dr Peter Anderson


Dear David
I am very sorry to hear that Dr Peter Anderson has passed away.
He operated on me in Vietnam when a bullet shattered my hip joint.
I was very moved by the fact that when I spoke in West Australia last August, Dr Anderson left his hospital bed to meet me and hear me speak at Cambridge Library in Floreat.
He wanted his wife to meet one of the men he had operated on in the war, in part to help her to understand why it was that he had left her and their children and his practice during that time to repair those of us who had received orthopaedic wounds.
It was, he said, his way of serving his country.
Such men are few and far between.
He thought it an honour that I could sign his personal copy of "The War Within" for him; in fact, the honour was all mine.
Please pass on my sincere condolences to his lovely wife, on behalf of both my wife Carole, and myself. She will remember us.
Sincerely

Don Tate
« Last Edit: Friday27November2009 by Samsung » Logged
bralig
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« Reply #262 on: Thursday26November2009 »

OK. So no book prizes for Don yet? Wait for it...  Tongue
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Steel
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« Reply #261 on: Thursday26November2009 »

Extract from Tate/Wiltshire letter:
Just because a book sells 10,000 copies doesn't mean it will be read 10,000 times. I have a copy of The War Within, but it wasn't really what I expected and I skipped much of the sordid, boastful material/fantasy. I wonder how many of the 10,000 buyers will be just as disappointed as I was. I wonder how many of the 10,000 buyers will be totally crapped off that (a) that kind of material could be published in the first place and (b) they've wasted good money that could have been used far more fruitfully, e.g. drinkie-poos at the club with some mates.

 Wink

A bestseller is a book that is identified as extremely popular by its inclusion on lists of currently top selling titles.

Tates book is not on any current top sellers list and never has been in the past.

In everyday use, the term bestseller is not usually associated with a specified level of sales, and may be used very loosely indeed in publisher's publicity. Bestsellers tend not to be books considered of superior academic value or literary quality.
« Last Edit: Thursday26November2009 by Steel » Logged
bralig
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« Reply #260 on: Thursday26November2009 »

Extract from Tate/Wiltshire letter:
Quote
Well first of all, is the fact that it's now around the 10,000 mark now, means it's regarded as a best-seller in Australia. 10,000 COPIES!

Just because a book sells 10,000 copies doesn't mean it will be read 10,000 times. I have a copy of The War Within, but it wasn't really what I expected and I skipped much of the sordid, boastful material/fantasy. I wonder how many of the 10,000 buyers will be just as disappointed as I was. I wonder how many of the 10,000 buyers will be totally crapped off that (a) that kind of material could be published in the first place and (b) they've wasted good money that could have been used far more fruitfully, e.g. drinkie-poos at the club with some mates.

 Wink
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Ethelred
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« Reply #259 on: Thursday26November2009 »

FFFFFFAAAAARRRRRRRKKKKK                       Tate is so full of himself............where does he find the time to look at himself in the mirror and then reflect...........next he will try an emulate Nelson de Mille, another Vietnam Veteran (US) turned brilliant fictional writer.

Tate = total and terrible egoist.
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Ruger357
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« Reply #258 on: Wednesday25November2009 »

FFFFFFAAAAARRRRRRRKKKKK                       Tate is so full of himself............where does he find the time to look at himself in the mirror and then reflect...........next he will try an emulate Nelson de Mille, another Vietnam Veteran (US) turned brilliant fictional writer.





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CD
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« Reply #257 on: Wednesday25November2009 »

Simple, he is one sick puppie and the more he reads his own shit the more he believes it.
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Steel
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« Reply #256 on: Wednesday25November2009 »

Quote
I've got to say- it's a great read. I've read it about 40 times myself. Best book ever! Better than Portnoys....that's for sure!

Why on earth would you want to read your own book 40 times?
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Ethelred
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« Reply #255 on: Wednesday25November2009 »

Tootsy Tate has put out a propaganda piece which would make the KGB blush. He put it out using Petersen and Wiltshire. Who else Kiss

The latest blurb from this patholigical liar and sexual compulsive follows for you to read boys and girls. I leave you to make up your own mind regarding its rationality and truthfullness. One thing of note is he says he is extremely happy with books sales but is now out there trying to flog them off via the internet.

The tatest Tate treatise.

From: Jim Wiltshire
To: PressieForYou@GoodBook.com.au
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 2:22 PM
Subject: Do Yourself a Favour : // "THE WAR WITHIN" for Christmas!


 
To whoever......
 
In case you hadn't heard, I've written a book- and blow me down, it's turned out to be a best-seller! It's called The War Within (Murdoch Books)
 
Mind you, I've copped some for my corner along the way. Can't have an ex-private writing about military corruption and atrocities and bullshit 'gallantry' medals and all that guff, and let him get away with it, can we? Not in Australia.
 
The 'establishment' has done its best to shut me up. Some ex-generals have pulled lots of strings. Used a few barking dogs to do its dirty work, snapping away at my heels. The best thing was- they actually helped drive the sales of the book!
 
Mind you, I aalways expected it. So did the publishers- Murdoch Books. Not that they quite expected the venom that came their way- they're a refined lot. Very prestigious. Certainly got caught off-guard by some of the crazies out there. But that's the ex-military community for you. Lots of once-proud soldiers reduced to cowardice and name-calling, like catty schoolgirls.
 
I was more used to it than the quality folk at Murdoch Books were. After all, they'd hammered me for years as I battled to prove the existence of the 2nd D&E Platoon against all the odds (successfully); and have pilloried me since "The War Within" was published. Hurt a bit- but hey, I've been down deeper pits and back again. Wear a full- body,plaster cast for a year in the Queensland heat, and you get a thick skin!
 
What was more important to me was the opinion of REAL MEN and even some REAL WOMEN. Got loads of wonderful comments from all across Australia. Even some church folk who might've had good reason to be offended. I don't pull any punches.
 
But that's by the by.
 
What I thought I should do is talk about "The War Within" a little, since there are those who have bagged it. (Interestingly, I've found that those who have bagged it, are barely able to string a full sentence together so as to make sense..the 'Bomber' Gibsons of the world, and some ex-armoured corps 'men'...that ilk!)
 
So let's see now, where do I start?
 
Well first of all, is the fact that it's now around the 10,000 mark now, means it's regarded as a best-seller in Australia. 10,000 COPIES! Crikey- not bad for a boy from Ellen Grove who didn't even get educated properly till I was about 30 or so! And then- self taught.
 
But for those who haven't read it, I thought I might tell you a little about it, then share the opinions of some intelligent critics who HAVE read it.
 
So what is "The War Within" really all about?
 
Well it's not just about Vietnam, I can assure you of that. Vietnam is a minor section (about 23%) although those chapters are certainly pivotal to my life. You know.....actually being an infantryman (as opposed to dixie-bashing); serving in four different units, always as a reinforcement; experiencing the full range of the infantry experience; actually being wounded- and the full cost of that; about how army maladministration can alienate a man; and how the physical and psychological wounds impacted my life, and family afterwards.
 
Many veterans reckon those chapters explain their own experiences better than they could themselves- and have found them invaluable in explaining to others how the war impacted them too. It's even used now by counsellors, the Dept of Veterans Affairs, and by the Defence Dept!
 
Apparently, there are lots of lessons in the book that others can learn from.
 
But make no mistake- "The War Within" is about a great deal more than Vietnam. It's about the evolution of a man's mind and his character over a lifetime; it's about the struggle to overcome genes, environment, and circumstances that could so easily have crippled him; and it's about those rites of passage from boyhood to manhood, and the women who give you a hand along the way- literally and metaphorically; and it's about love, sex, family, death, and fighting about one thing or another- and about how a vengeful man can never really be at peace.
 
Stuff like that.
 
At 465 pages, it's a pretty big book- and was priced at $29.95 by Murdoch Books to take into account the financial situation of many veterans. It's beautifully presented (even has a flyleaf) and is printed on quality paper- unlike many others. I reckon they shoul;d've charged closer to $50 by the standards of other books around!
 
Lots of books have come and gone in the 16 months since my memoir was published (hello...Peter Costello!)- but "The War Within" keeps on keeping on. It's had its day in bookstores though- all books have a specified shelf-life, apparently. It has to be ordered now from those bookstores, and that's an annoyance. Especially in smaller towns. But that's life. (It can still be ordered though....direct from me...see end of letter!)
 
I've got to say- it's a great read. I've read it about 40 times myself. Best book ever! Better than Portnoys....that's for sure!
 
There's some sex in it, I suppose. Had to be. (My editor cut a lot out, though...we're still not on speaking terms! No that's not true.......we are. Nurse Rutter will ride again, one day, eh Sarah?) One veteran (up Kempsey way, no names..) told me he hadn't had sex for three years- but since he'd read "The War Within" had had erections for three months! Trouble was, his wife had already bolted. I think he's easily pleased, myself.
 
Anyway...some dunderheads reckon it's a 'porn book', and 'only good for the outhouse' and so on.....so I thought I'd let those with brains have a say.....you know, intelligent critics...people who can appreciate style annd theme and mood and atmosphere and words longer than four letters....
 
Here's a selection of them...
 
"..a book for every Australian...brilliantly written a tragic account of a soldier who struggles to survive in a constant storm of government stupidity, neglect, and indifference, declares war, and fights back to seek justice and recognition for himself and his comrades.."   
                                                                                           -  Brigadier George Mansford (Rtd) AM

 

"...scales new heights in war writing...a dark and shocking journey, where no subject is taboo..."                                                                                     - Ian McPhedran, The Daily Telegraph, Sydney
 

"..an amazing book...a remarkable read.."                            - Richard Aedy, ABC Radio National
 

"'The War Within' is an extraordinary memoir, an unadorned, uncensored, unabashed account of one raucous Australian life....                                      - Paul Ham, international journalist and author
 

The War Within is an interesting book, especially from the view of the inner struggles that Viet Nam veterans have faced and continue to face today. His realisation of the impact of post traumatic stress disorder is confronting and well written. Tate is to be congratulated for standing up and being counted on this subject and revealing all that happened to him and the effect on his family and personal relationships.                                                                           -  Gary McKay, author
 

"...a brutally honest insight into a life less fortunate....'A Fortunate Life' on steroids....takes the reader on a dark and shocking journey...."                                              -  The Courier-Mail, Brisbane
 

"...a knock 'em out, drag 'em out type of book, permeated with anger (but) there is a richness and a vibrance in Tate's writing style...the reader grows with the author as he struggles through, and with, life....quite a remarkable man, a raucous Australian."          - Brigadier Neil Weekes (Rtd) AM MC
 

"...narrated with vivid authority, (it) at once disarms, repels, gives hope, as its narrator summons inner demons beyond anything that the war in Vietnam had made."   - The Sydney Morning Herald
 

An incredible, raw, gutsy, in-you- face memoir from an ANZAC heart recollection  ate lunch and then got shot. A soldier who refused to accept the disability, discarding, denigration and rejection awarded by a grateful nation.                                Barry Corse, former platoon commander, infantry
 

The War Within is a complex, virtuoso analysis of one mans world- an utterly compelling and profoundly unsettling mosaic. On the one hand, it is an acidic dissection of the role environment and family have in developing a persons character, and on the other, it is a sauntering chronicle of social analysis and injustice. One is almost left breathless-                L. Ollsen, Freelance Reviewer
 

"...a moving and disturbingly honest memoir....a brutal insight into soldiers at war.....will not be easily forgotten. It deserves a place alongside the classics of memoir."     -  Herald-Sun, Melbourne
 

"Don Tate is a brilliant writer....'The War Within' is a fantastic book...an excellent read.."                                                                                                                     - Howard Sattler, radio 6PR, Perth
 

"War stories don't come much darker than this. Gritty stuff."            - Sunday Telegraph, Sydney
 

"..a wonderful book..."                                                          - Bob Rogers, Radio 2CH, Sydney
 

"...an inspiring, yet horrific journey. The insight he gives on life in the Vietnam War is heartbreaking. Graphic and explicit at times..             -  Sharon Athanosos, Freelance Reviewer
 

a terrific read and a great bloke to talk to                   Mike Smith, radio announcer, 4BC
 

Don I love it!   Your words took me there.  You have an innocence and frankness that's empathy personified. Your lack of ego, and your simple randiness are rare in a war story. My style is totally different in that I lack the naivete that comes through in yours. You are as astounded at your luck and experiences as the non battle-hardened reader will be. I believe many soldiers and non-soldiers will relate to your story. Probably Shielas too!!                       - Cpl Jim Riddle, 2nd D&E Platoon

and it's a bluddy good read. PS. I wouldn't know Don or Carol if I fell over them - but he'd prob'ly kick me to death.    -   Jim Wiltshire, Nobody special.
 

So there you go. How about buying a copy for yourself and see what Australia is talking about? It's a book for men, and women. Men like it because it's got lots of men's stuff in it; women like it because they can get inside a man's head a little.

 
You could even order a copy direct from me instead of from a bookstore- and I'll autograph it however you want. (Mind you- it's $40, that way, which includes postage)
 
A special Christmas present, eh?
 
Just $40 for an autographed copy of a best-seller (cheque or money-order)

 

My address is:

Don Tate

134 Princes Highway

Albion Park Rail

NSW 2527


…and a very Merry Christmas to all!


Don Tate
soldier; teacher; author- and salesman!
 
 
Per:
Jim Wiltshire
PS. I thought you might like to read the book that you've been lying in your teeth about and trying to stop publication, Barry H. Don't bitch, or your full name comes next.
Mass Distributed.
« Last Edit: Wednesday25November2009 by Spartakus » Logged
Ethelred
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« Reply #254 on: Sunday22November2009 »

Tate you reckon ya good wiv docs. Gives us the docs which prove you were at the Thua Tich ambush. Ho ho  bet ya cant  Grin


From: remloc  REMLOC IS TED COLMER
Sent: Wednesday, 12 August 2009 12:12 PM
To: 'Allen Petersen'; 'Undisclosed-Recipient:;'; Barry CORSE
Cc: 'Richard Williams''; Alan Price; Dennis Manski; etricker; Jim Fraser; Kay & Alan Roach; Kay & Allan; sopwith1; nealcremen; ricb; richard appleby; rick; Robert Secrett; 'jeqon'
Subject: SPURIOUS ALLEGATIONS OF ATROCITIES COMMITTED BY THE 2ND D & E PLATOON TASK FORCE - THUA TICH

 

Barry,

BRIEF REBUTTAL:

How dare you corroborate and then attempt to justify these allegations of atrocities committed by this platoon.

I challenge you and Don Tate to a public forum debate concerning these allegations, and his attendance on Phase: 2 of Operation: Garryowen from the 14 May 69 until 8 June 69 inclusive.
 

Otherwise, this matter has absolutely nothing to do with you Barry, and can only be resolved with Don Tate retracting the statements alleged against this platoon. The very existence of this platoon is now totally irrelevant to the superseding complaints of atrocities allegedly committed by the men that served in this sub-unit. There is no greater cause to rectify when you have been engaged on active service, then to be accused forty years later of committing war crimes, especially by a member who has financial book motivating marketing agenda’s paramount to preserving the “status quo” integrity of this platoon’s reputation and that of all associated Vietnam armed forces, and is certainly not in a position to witness or make such scurrilous allegations against our platoon at Thua Tich. Don Tate’s apparent dislike for Cavalry and a certain well known trooper, arising from matters in the 1980s fuels his retribution, resulting in the scheming cultivation of our platoon membership in 2007 for book publishing purposes.  I believe the fictional account of his personal involvement highlighted in Chapter: The orphan platoon is either plagiarised from other member’s accounts, or falsified, following the devious cultivation of certain members for information purposes in early 2007 [differing greatly to his original web site] which was a prerequisite to finalising this chapter and accordingly his book, that no-one was aware of until he made that announcement, immediately alienating most members.

 

Your philosophical predication, justifying this particular matter is flawed Barry.  There is nothing greater than restoring the dignity deserved to our platoon members, and others affected by this scandalous and totally exaggerated expose’.  I recently consulted with my psychiatrist [well known in Sydney] to discover numerous patients have reported extreme anxiety from these revelations. Our platoon is now dishonoured by these allegations and deeply wounded.  I would be surprised to discover that this book is validated by the DVA and used as a written text for Veterans’ programs, since his media marketing strategy is causing so much exacerbated anxiety.  Don Tate is a malcontent figure that flagrantly hates anyone that disagrees with his determination and ruthless ambition to ensure financial success, derived from the misery of other Vietnam veterans per se.

 

For principle of privacy reasons I will not list the factual nominal roll of infantry that took part in these engagements [that physically excludes Don Tate] including: the 9 man listening active ambush post [call sign I – 63] with the remaining infantry sections reinforcing: XX, XX & XX section APCs, because these men have now been collectively tarnished with the stigma of allegedly committing atrocities following the aftermath of these engagements, and have to reside with those allegations, negating the premise of your philosophical rationale Barry, because collateral damage has now been inflicted on not just that composite force of soldiers, but also widespread amongst many Vietnam veterans, which will not assist your determination to bring down the Establishment, at the expense of those soldiers on the ground; contradicting your reasoning herein.   We have been collectively betrayed by a person with nothing but financial motives, rather than altruistic purposes, so transparent to all platoon members et al.  I have repeatedly pleaded, warned, and otherwise tried to persuade Don Tate to divert his attention from deriding certain “baggy arse” diggers et al [especially constructive Establishment D & E Platoon Task Force members; SAS, and Cavalry] but he was intent on vilification and destruction.  Therefore. what is the premise of your criminal complaints to the AFP regarding WAR CRIMES Barry?   This is the first time I have heard that formal criminal complaints have been tendered to the AFP concerning alleged war crimes at Thua Tich, and with that I will vigorously defend these vicious and totally incongruous assertions, premised entirely on the most malevolent and insidiously treacherous act of betrayal of confidentiality I have ever experienced.  Therefore, should I prepare myself for a visit by the AFP in relation to these allegations, or would you prefer that I surrender myself for interrogation and charging under the Geneva Convention articles inter alia.

 

During the course of our deployment on Phase: 2 Operation Garryowen from date: 14 May 69 – 8 June 69 we operated with a designated call sign I – 63, when patrolling and conducting singular section size ambushes.  Otherwise, all sections conducted combined RIF operations with these troops. All men including: Cavalry troopers; Infantry; Sappers; and Mortar men always fought with courage and some real aggressive displayed gallantry, and any gibing between corps was founded on mere trivial rivalry, and considered healthy for morale.  3 SQN SAS were superior soldiers performing covert reconnaissance under the most perilous conditions with some unavoidable engagements during the course of April; May – June 69 inclusive.  GsO2 [OPS] Major David Chinn, directed SAS to avoid contact during this period, and concentrate on intelligence gathering.  I have studied and noted their extraordinary success during the HO CHI MINH Offensive [19 May 69] especially given the 18 man 3 SQN SAS saturation patrol of 18 – 27 May 69, sighting almost 800 VC/NVA, as the large scale traversing enemy walked within a few metres of their 9 day listening post, on a congested east/west track position just 10 clicks from Thua Tich, that resulted in our deployment on the 28 May 69 [with the assignment of AO-FROG to 3 Cav,] with the much deserved recognition for outstanding leadership and gallantry awarded to the Troop Commander.  3 SQN SAS were later permitted to interdict and aggressively engage the enemy; resulting in excess of 85 confirmed KIA for the Regiment. The point being how could we consider ourselves superior to SAS or even pretend to, and what do you precisely mean with your reference to SAS in conjunction with 1 ATF’s Commander.   I haven’t had possession or read this apparent submission?

 

I reported [in recent months] the whereabouts of large grave sites south of Thua Tich near route: 328 to the Australian embassy’s defence attaché Colonel Stuart Dodds, at YS 610785.  Bushranger 71 witnessed VC removing 3 bodies from these grave sites, on the 31 May 69.   Perhaps the VC moved all bodies to another site, albeit, the grave site was substantial, accounting for further VC KIA at Thua Tich and en route: 328 ambush.  The site is south of the old abandoned village somewhere between that engagement position and the Friday attempted ambush on our APC column, during the course of Buddha [birthday] Cease fire arrangement.  So there is that huge grave site the Vietnamese can excavate.  With respect to these matters, this would be the respectful path for the Vietnamese Government to pursue rather than focusing on the negative or sensationism. The statement by Don Tate asserting that there are no bodies left for them to find, highlighting the recovery of Flying Officers Michael Herbert and Pilot Officer Robert Carver for further impact is a dishonourable and disgraceful inclusion, and shouldn’t be rewarded by corroborating and attempting to justify these acts of betrayal.

 

I note that the article attached, together with radio interviews, and the Herald article dated: 12 July 2009 makes direct allegations of atrocities committed by this infantry platoon, with such sensationalised media reports always preceding Don Tate’s book tours??
Ted Colmer

218512

Machine Gunner Listening post Thua Tich [therefore, accused of committing Thua Tich related atrocities]
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Zion
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« Reply #253 on: Sunday22November2009 »

From:xxxx
To: Donald Tate
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: your comments re me


Donnie Me Old Cobber,

Thank you for your most welcome email and the fact that you would even bother to reply. As for your recollection of the events My dear Don, you appear to have contradicted your self again. But never mind, as we all grow older and more senile we do tend to lose the facts.  As for you novel, I did purchase three copies as a mate told me it was total garbage yet I am that sort of person who would rather decide those things for him self. Alas, he was right!! Dam it was total garbage, and the two friends I sent copies to are now threaterning to cancel my christmas card suscription. I know this doesn't bother you, but it is the only decent hobby I have left since being here.

Any way old mate, all the Best to you and your family for the year ahead.
You Mate,
xxxx

Ever thought about joining the AVM? They have a terific retirement plan. Out of this world.


----- Original Message -----
From: Donald Tate
To: xxxxxx
Cc: Allen Petersen ; oldfaithful@netspace.net.au ; Bernie ; Barry Corse
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 1:58 AM
Subject: your comments re me


xxx...don't know you, nor care to. But I've heard about your comments about me, and "The War Within". So, I'll make this brief, and in simple language so that you will understand the matter a little more fully...

- I spoke and wrote about those matters that occurred at Thua Tich since 1970; others only came on board when Jim Riddle returned in 2006.

- if I wasn't directly involved, how would you explain that I knew more about the matters than any other person for more than 35 years?

- like many other men, my memories of it are distorted now....but thankfully, one of the Armoured Corps' very own...Allan Stanton (Arrowsmith's driver) verified AND validated m,y accounts as in "The War Within"- that is, the disposal of some bodies with explosives, and the strapping up of other bodies to Arrowsmith's APC

- the problem here is, you see, is that there is a document held by the AWM that clearly states that all the bodies were neatly disposed of (a military lie) and it was filed by an officer- and that officer refuses to own up to the lie

- I have also met with other Cav members who have validated the matters, and passed their names on to the appropriate authorities, and also have located a most significant photograph which will be used at the most appropriate time (and which may never be used if the truth is told)

- "The War Within" contains only one chapter dealing with those matters, and only in skeletal form......at this point...
- and despite YOUR 'review' of my book, it has been wonderfully reviewed by military men, and intellectuals all over the country, is used by DVA, and was recently mass-ordered by a section of the Defence Dept.....so the opinion of a cav man who spent his days surrounded by protective steel doesn't rate a mention

- oh...and by the way, is your 'alternative' lifestyle (and the use of spearguns) simply a statement that you couldn't handle the hardships of real life?

Mate.....why don't you just take a few more puffs and pull your head in, else you'll look even more of a fool than you do already....

Don Tate
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Ethelred
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« Reply #252 on: Thursday19November2009 »

From: xxxxxxxx
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: Tate


xxxxx,
I have not heard of this bloke TATE and am unaware of his book, however I will pass your email on.
 
Regards...........................xxxxxxxxxx


Hi,
I have copied and pasted some comments in relation to Don Tate and his book. He is indeed one very troubled soul. I won’t buy his book as I know the mongrel very well, so I’ll accept the following comments may have some truth. I stress “may”.

I went to a catholic primary school and I missed out, again!

“Sir /
It has given me some comfort in finding  I am not alone in being appalled at the rubbish that this fellow Tate who calls himself an author has published. I have made my opinions known to xxxxx the 5th Battalion Web Site Manager in the past. I was disgusted  at his assertions re the RAR and the Australian Army Officer Corp. His 1st book I returned after reading about 30 pages... and in a rage! demanding my money back!. He obviously aims at a certain market, one that buys what we in the army used to refer to, as stick books' absolute bullshit the man has a problem and I think its probably sexual in nature  Comments like "they only put idiots into the infantry "and "the officers were cowards" along with his descriptions of cuningalas with a Nun, putting his slouch hat on before indulging himself with his wife, soon had me heading back the  20 k  to xxxxx to demand my money back, where  I left the book shop attendants in no doubt as to my opinion of this so called author. I told them this bloke was a disgrace to the memory of my mates who served, two who's deaths I was a witness to, in 1966-7, J Sweetnam and  G DÁntoine. He is a disgraceful opportunist who uses his  genuine service experience in a tawdry exercise of self enrichment via book sales... and in doing so he has lessened  all Vietnam Veterans...but  what is worse 'IN MY OPINION' in this first book in the literal sense he  urinated on the memory of his fellow soldiers and insulted our dead.” End quote.

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Steel
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« Reply #251 on: Wednesday18November2009 »

Reading some of the rubbish on his site came across a couple of comments.

First one 

It is a matter of fact that at eighteen years of age, at a time of war, I VOLUNTEERED for the army.
 I then VOLUNTEERED for the one corps MOST LIKELY to face the enemy- infantry!
 And at nineteen, I VOLUNTEERED to go to the Vietnam War as an infantry reinforcement, at the earliest opportunity I could.


Note how many times he says he VOLUNTEERED.

The second comment

And because I was only 19 when I first fought in the war, its effects on me were even more profound (as it is in most wars). Those least able to deal with the trauma of war are often the first chosen to fight them

Note his comment "chosen to fight them"


He wasn't chosen, he Volunteered, he made that quite clear in the first comment.
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D371
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« Reply #250 on: Wednesday18November2009 »

Hi all,

I have not bought the "book" for obvious reasons. Tate is of the firm belief that if you weren't WIA you should not receive DVA benefits.

I find the expression relating to statements in his book of shit to be startling that he, more and less, couldn't get his jollies off with his wife unless he had a slouch hat on! How does she feel about that? Pretty low I'd imagine.

I'll make sure that on future Anzac Day marches, if he has a slouch hat on, I'll warn the veterans to keep well clear as he may try and screw the lot of them!

I saw somewhere where he professed his wife as his profound love.This statement, if true, opens up another can of worms. If you recall the "dropping the dacks at Dapto High School" and him being "bashed in a toilet by school students." I would not like to accuse anyone of a sexual fetish, paedophilia or whatever. The alrm bells are ringing though!

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Zion
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« Reply #249 on: Wednesday18November2009 »

The only people who believe Tate is Tate and those who are as warped and sick as he is. AVM has received the following.

From:xxxxxxxx
To: admin@austvetmatters.net
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 3:26 PM
Subject: Fw: Tate



----- Original Message -----
From: xxxxx
To: xxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 10:31 AM
Subject: Fw: Tate


xxxx/I have climbed out of my shell scrape again see below, I spelt comfort wrong I was so mad!  xxxxx


----- Original Message -----
From: xxxxx
To: admin@austvetmatters.net
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 10:11 AM
Subject: Tate


Sir /
It has given me some comfort in finding  I am not alone in being appalled at the rubbish that this fellow Tate who calls himself an author has published. I have made my opinions known to xxxxx the 5th Battalion Web Site Manager in the past. I was disgusted  at his assertions re the RAR and the Australian Army Officer Corp. His 1st book I returned after reading about 30 pages... and in a rage! demanding my money back!. He obviously aims at a certain market, one that buys what we in the army used to refer to, as stick books' absolute bullshit the man has a problem and I think its probably sexual in nature  Comments like "they only put idiots into the infantry "and "the officers were cowards" along with his descriptions of cuningalas with a Nun, putting his slouch hat on before indulging himself with his wife, soon had me heading back the  20 k  to xxxxx to demand my money back, where  I left the book shop attendants in no doubt as to my opinion of this so called author. I told them this bloke was a disgrace to the memory of my mates who served, two who's deaths I was a witness to, in 1966-7, J Sweetnam and  G DÁntoine. He is a disgraceful opportunist who uses his  genuine service experience in a tawdry exercise of self enrichment via book sales... and in doing so he has lessened  all Vietnam Veterans...but  what is worse 'IN MY OPINION' in this first book in the literal sense he  urinated on the memory of his fellow soldiers and insulted our dead.   
                                                                                               
                                                                                                                       xxxxx C Coy and Pioneers 5th Bat RAR
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Ric T
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« Reply #248 on: Saturday14November2009 »

I feel personally insulted by Don Tates inference that "The Australian Military is a cesspool".

By doing so, he intimates that I, and all ex and serving personnel, are nothing more than garbage.

He should immediately apologise to every Australian Soldier, Sailor and Airman/woman, retired and currently serving, AND to every Australian Veteran.

However, I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for that to happen.

Referring to Fergus' list of D&E Platoon casualties, it is also interesting to note that many of these Soldiers were National Servicemen.  Another reason to be so much prouder of our Military.

I should feel sorry for Don Tate, but I can not find any compassion to even feel pity for a person who denigrates his fellow servicemen and servicewomen in such a way.




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Savage1
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« Reply #247 on: Saturday14November2009 »

Just to help out Don, Xuyen Moc was a village in VC country.
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CD
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« Reply #246 on: Friday13November2009 »

Stumbles Stuffs Up AGAIN.

Having read the post by Steel I had a read of his reference.  Reading through Tates mumbling, bumbling, stumbling statement I see he refers to "- it was sent into the Xuyen Moc Province".
Now, having covered a lot of ground in III Corps I decided to go back to some of my old maps and nowhere can I find a Xuyen Moc Province. I wonder where he dreamed this was?

Another little beauty is "- one of the 2nd D&E Platoon members, traumatised by the events at Thua Tich, subsequently murdered Lt Bob Convery in the 9RAR lines in November 2009".
To the best of my knowledge I believe that Convery was murdered on 23 Nov 1969.

Now if we readers are to believe everything that Tate utters and/or writes that then means we have to believe a whole heap of bullshit.
If anyone has the number of the Dr. that helps people do away with themselves, please pass it on to Stumbles. Thank you.
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Ruger357
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« Reply #245 on: Friday13November2009 »

Well said Fergus.   You again have completely dissected Tate's wild and scurrilous assertions. 

This man Tate, simply by the number of 'views' of this thread, shows that he is still a topic of concern and comment.  He should have very deep pockets if he intends to take individuals to court.  And the 'onus' will be on him.

I have come across some very nasty 'personalities' in my long life time, and Tate for one, beats them all. 

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Fergus
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« Reply #244 on: Friday13November2009 »

Don Tate is detailing in writing, to the world, his instructions to his legal team. Tate is the author of the book “The War Within” The military contents of that book have been comprehensively discredited and Tate lambasted by many from the veteran community. Tate’s version of his Vietnam experiences range from a distorted cluster of conspiracy theories, dreamed up by a very inexperienced and immature soldier, to down right malicious lies.

I have been a Tate observer for some time and I am confident that the title of his book is an analogy for what is going on in his head.

Below are some of Tate’s latest assertions:

“As a young man, I joined the Australian Army willingly, believing that it was a bastion of honour and integrity. It isn't.  The Australian military is a cesspool.

the service records of the infantrymen were all altered so as not to show that any such "2nd D&E Platoon" ever existed.

I (and many others keeping tabs on the site) have no doubt that the attack is a carefully-orchestrated campaign engineered by a ruling 'elite' of ex-Australian military officers, offended by the contentions raised by the 'Orphan Platoon' chapter in "The War Within" (about the 2nd D&E Platoon matter.)Those ex- officers use certain ex-service organisations as their new 'units' of action like they did in the war- not only as personal tools for the winning of civilian medals, but to tackle any dissident veteran who might challenge their notion of the integrity of the military. The AVM web site is simply another of these tools.

But those officers are smart enough not to get themselves embroiled in any controversies, or get caught. Instead, they use mouthpieces to do their dirty work - individuals who might owe a favour here and there for certain actions...perhaps a dodgy 'gallantry' medal awarded; perhaps allowing 'mitigating excuses' for vile offences into a service record, etc etc”.

These mouthpieces have included a 'Bomber' Gibson, and a 'Bud' Cramer- both outed recently as members of a sedentary D&E Platoon who saw no action in Vietnam, whatsoever. (Gibson refuses to provide any validation for his claims to be at FSB Coral; Cramer is since deceased, but was a known associate of Kevin 'Mother' Quick- a convicted fraudster.)”


All of what Tate has said above is grossly offensive, and very hurtful to ex professional soldiers.

Suggesting there is a ruling elite that has in the past, and still does manipulate the Defence Force is Tate’s lynch pin for his conspiracy theories. His assertions are childish, churlish and wrong

To denigrate the D&E Platoon by saying they were a sedentary Platoon who saw no action beggars belief, illustrates his ignorance and gives an insight into his confused mind.  Have a look under here at the D&E Platoon casualty list, between 1969 and 1971 (with one exception in 1966). Incidentally  DOW means"Died of Wounds".  WIA means "Wounded in Action" and KIA means  "Killed in Action


Ruduss             A.         Pte       3410295            HQ1ATF            D&E     66.06.12            29         RAINF   DOW

Strapps             R.W.     Pte       44683               HQ1ATF            D&E     69.07.18            21         RAINF   WIA

Yeo                  T.R.      Cpl       216965              HQ1ATF            D&E     69.07.18            21         

Geaghan           R.B.      Pte       3795570            HQ1ATF            D&E     70.04.14            22         RAINF   WIA#

Round               L.D.      Pte       6709299            HQ1ATF            D&E     70.04.14            22         RAINF   WIA#

Bridley              P.L.      Pte       3797060            HQ1ATF            D&E     70.08.29            22         RAINF   WIA

Freestone          J.B.      Pte       1735932            HQ1ATF            D&E     70.08.29            21         RAINF   WIA#

Harrington         P.         Pte       39993               HQ1ATF            D&E     70.08.29            21         RAINF   WIA#

Hayward            L.R.      Pte       4721184            HQ1ATF            D&E     70.08.29            21         RAINF   WIA#

Kittyea              D.R.      Pte       5716848            HQ1ATF            D&E     70.08.29            22         RAINF   WIA

Rok                  R.         Pte       2792695            HQ1ATF            D&E     70.08.29            22         RAINF   WIA#

Ryan                 T.J.       LCpl      18449               HQ1ATF            D&E     70.08.29            25         RAINF   WIA#

Turner               M.        Pte       2793652            HQ1ATF            D&E     70.08.29            21         RAINF   WIA#

Attwood            T.J.       Pte       2794278            HQ1ATF            D&E     71.06.12            23         

Driscoll             R.W.     Pte       2794265            HQ1ATF            D&E     71.06.12            21         RAINF   KIA

Ellis                  R.J.      Pte       3797967            HQ1ATF            D&E     71.06.12                        RAINF   WIA

Hill                    D.C.      Pte       2794350            HQ1ATF            D&E     71.06.12            22         RAINF   KIA

Ilacqua              P.         Cpl       5717206            HQ1ATF            D&E     71.06.12                        RAINF   WIA

Morgan             G.H.     LCpl      2794494            HQ1ATF            D&E     71.06.12            22         RAINF   WIA#

Tebb                 P.         Pte       1203166            HQ1ATF            D&E     71.06.12            20         RAINF   KIA

Towler               M.        Pte       2792254            HQ1ATF            D&E     71.06.12            21         RAINF   KIA

To suggest that Service records of Infantrymen were corruptly altered is lunacy. No Infantry soldier was ever posted to a Platoon in Vietnam. Infantrymen who served with the D&E Platoon HQ1ATF were all posted to HQ 1ATF. Tate in his ignorance of military administration says that they were posted to the 2nd D&E Platoon and that fact was expunged from their records. The reason he describes the Australian Army as a “cesspool” is because he never fitted into the Army or the Veteran community and in any case was never in the Army long enough to understand how it works.

Tate's inference that Bud Cramer was a known associate of Kevin “Mother” Quick is an outrageous innuendo.  It was well known among veterans that Bud despised Quick for being a fraud and a wannabe.

Bud’s role with the D&E Platoon was far from “Sedentary”; he was a Machine Gunner and spent a lot of time, as he would describe it, “Walking the Weeds”

Tate’s legal team would be well advised to check his statements with mainstream Defence organizations, as just about everything Tate says is wrong and it is wrong in such a way to be very offensive.

Aye

Fergus
« Last Edit: Friday13November2009 by Fergus » Logged
Steel
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« Reply #243 on: Friday13November2009 »

You can't get any lower than attacking the credibility of a deceased person. A deceased person can't fight back.
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Ruger357
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« Reply #242 on: Friday13November2009 »

I have read Tates website....and what he claims, in his attacks, is going against the grain of what he professes to NOT to do.........he is one bitter man......
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« Reply #241 on: Friday13November2009 »

I see Don Tate is still  at it.  We , in the veteran community agree that he is full of himself and is still believing his own lies.
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« Reply #240 on: Thursday12November2009 »

More rumbles from the jungle.

 http://tinyurl.com/y9ffuwe
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Ruger357
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« Reply #239 on: Wednesday11November2009 »


Gee, is not Tate a wonderful person....still with his poison pen and egotistical demeanour


This taken from Martinek's AVM site, where they seem to be having ago at the Minister.......as if he cares !!!!!!...

From: Donald Tate
To: Alan.Griffin.MP@aph.gov.au
Cc: Allen Petersen
Sent: Monday, 2 November 2009 5:22 AM
Subject: Minister Griffin and the Gold Card

Mr Griffin......
Thank you for your considered opinion about the inherent value of having a gold card.
Please excuse me though for suggesting that your opinion is ill-considered- and absurd.
In my case (and I only speak for myself) I have a gold card as a result of physical disabilities from having a bullet shatter a hip joint. This, then, created enormous stresses on all other parts of my my body for some forty years, and adversely affected my overall health.
I suggest to you that if I hadn't have been wounded, I would be a great deal physically healthier today, than I otherwise am.
Add to that though, the psychological consequences of infantry actions, of life and death matters, of the various horrors concerned with such a wound, long-term hospitalisation, unemployment, alienation, and the struggle to validate one's own service history, and I would say the friggin' gold card compensates just a little for the cost to a veteran's health.
Pity you didn't actually serve somewhere, yourself, so you'd have some first-hand knowledge of these things, rather than listening to some half-assed bureaucrat.
Oh.....by the way......when are you going to answer just ONE of about four letters I've written to you in your capacity as Minister for Veteran's Affairs?
Too busy swanning around electorates dolling out superficial sound bytes than actually answering correspondence?
 
Don Tate
author, "The War Within"
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Nuidat68
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« Reply #238 on: Monday09November2009 »

Just got home tonight 9th Nov from Casino RSL Club had a few cold one's and seen on the local news NBN Telly that Tate Tar is peddling his  shocker of a book up and down the coast from the boot of his car. He must be trying to get petrol money. Have for warned diggers around my area that this peddler of bad books might be heading their way and the book isnt worth 2 cents so dont waste your money. Wink Save it for a raining day. Off to Sydney for couple weeks then to Canberra again more meetings of ASIO.
Duty First.
« Last Edit: Monday09November2009 by Nuidat68 » Logged
Ruger357
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« Reply #237 on: Saturday07November2009 »

wow....this is like the Travelling Willberry's.......where does he get the energy....and who is paying for all this promotion.....petrol, meals and accommodation?

maybe I should write a book too...on my experiences with a Ruger 357.........in the jungles of tropical North Queensland.

got to give it to him...he is unashamedly very self promoting.......and cant wait to see who he has in his sights for legal action....no doubt we will hear  it as soon as it happens....
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Ethelred
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« Reply #236 on: Saturday07November2009 »

The great road show moves on. How can a TPI keep up all this work, travel, stress and pressure. Got me beat. Does he declare his income from sales and whatever other income he gets. How can he afford the fares and accommodation. If Murdoch pays for these are they classed as income by dva.One day all this bravado the lies the abuse and the pressure will catch up with Tate and he will fall apart. The sooner the better.

From: Donald Tate
To:  Allen Petersen
Sent: Friday, 6 November 2009 7:14 PM
Subject: Don Tate's Final Itinerary for 2009


For anyone interested, this is my final itinerary for 2009:
 
9th November at Port Macquarie Library (NSW) at 10 am

9th November at Grafton Library (NSW) at 2.30 pm

9th November at Casino Library (NSW) at 6.30 pm

10th November at Logan City Library (QLD) at 6 pm

11th November at Noosa Library (QLD) at 6.30 pm

16th November at Tenterfield (NSW) at 6 pm

17th at Warialda Library (NSW) at 1 pm

17th at Bingara Library (NSW) at 4 pm

18th November at Wallsend Library (NSW) at 6.30 pm

19th November at Singleton Library at 6.00 pm

 
Regards
Don Tate
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« Reply #235 on: Friday06November2009 »

Look out Peter, a wannabe is after you......

From: Donald Tate
To: tjimw1@iprimus.com.au ; Allen Petersen ; Bernie
Sent: Friday, 6 November 2009 8:42 AM
Subject: Legal action now set in stone.
 
To the maggots.....
 
Today (Friday) I completed the paperwork for the law firm to come after xxxxxxxxx.
 
This wasn't an easy decision, his being a fellow veteran and all, but I gave him two opportunities to make a full apology- and he was stupid enough not to. That he then compounded his first letter with another appearance (addressed to his maggot mates).  Now, he'll pay the consequences.
 
He's just the first cab off the rank. I'm now going through the AVM documents...in detail. Others will follow this lead.
 
Run maggots, run.

Don Tate
« Last Edit: Friday06November2009 by Spartakus » Logged
Ethelred
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« Reply #234 on: Tuesday03November2009 »

AN OPEN LETTER TO DON TATE

Under normal circumstances we have no interest in the private lives of anybody. However with Don Tate the circumstances are different. Tate has set the gold standard with his incessant ,vicious and baseless attacks on the characters, private lives and integrity of many Veterans. His favourite vomitous sprays accuse many people of being paedophiles, drug dealers and murderers. Each time somebody confronts Tate with their opinion or their version of matters, and each time Don Tate is confronted with information which contradicts his own he attacks not the facts with facts but attacks the characters and integrity of those who ask legitimate questions or make valid points.
 
We therefore, abiding by the standards set by Tate and mad galahs Corse, Briggs, Wiltshire and Keith Joyce, ask Don Tate the following question.
 
We have received Police information which states that when Don Tate was a teacher at Dapto he removed his trousers in front of school children to show off scars from his War wounds. It has been stated that Tate said the following or similar to those children.
 
"You're not a man until you have been shot by the enemy"
 
We have been advised that if an incident like this had occurred two years later than it is said to have occured it would have meant very serious Police charges in relation to children. The Police say they were called to this incident.
 
Tate and his mates have accused all and sundry of paedophilia but we will not use the same vicious standard. We make no claims about Tates private life however we now ask Don Tate to respond to AVM and confirm or deny this information.
 
We remind Don that in an email he said in relation to some children  “I was bashed and robbed in a school toilet at night;”. Why did these kids attack you Don?

Don Tate is a master at deflection from the issues, or he thinks he is. I ask AVM if golden boy Tate has responded to this request  which I have quoted?

Inevitably when Tate is cornered with hard questions he will launch out and attack the private and military lives of anyody to take the heat off himself. He has been joined in this nefarious sickening campaign by his mate and supporter and former wannabe hunter Jim Wiltshire  by Brig Neil Weekes a member of the Prime Ministers Advisory Council on ex service matters and also by other proven frauds and wannabes like Noel Molly Muller. Brian McKenzie has also joined the personal attack fray and hates this site because it uses nom de plumes yet it is well known and his wife admitted that he and she used nom de plumes on another website WITHOUT letting people know. One of the famous names they used was Aggie. What the private lives of people has to do with veterans issues and the behviour of veterans on the internet I don't know. These people the mad galahs have a morbid fascination with what goes on in peoples bedrooms and what happened in the army in such places as The Battle at Long Tan.I have seen this mad galahs mob paint themselves as pure as the driven snow and paint anybody who questions them or disagrees with them as drug dealers murderers paedohpiles and corruptors of military history. They started this prying into private and military lives and when AVM responded with the NOT SO PERFECT PRIVATE AND MILITARY LIVES OF THE MGS to show what hypocrites and liars and frauds the mgs are they immediately cried foul, yet it was the galahs who set the rules and who set the parameters of online debate.

None of us can cast stones and all of us have faults weaknesses and histories and baggage, all except the galahs according to them.

This mad lot are vile hobbits who have a set of rules for themselves and a set of rules for everybody else.

« Last Edit: Tuesday03November2009 by Samsung » Logged
Ruger357
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« Reply #233 on: Monday02November2009 »

Yes, is there no end to this useless slice of skin on the end of a prick.........again  he is defaming Bob Buick and others...........would someone please take this arsehole out and flog him like he should have been flogged when at Infantry Centre......he was a "mouth big boy then"   ..........

There was also some emails way back a few years ago, when he (if I recall correctly) and others claimed that Viet Vets were entitled to the V Cof G,   which RVN awarded to all foreign troops..........which is INCORRECT

What a SLY AND GREASY TYPE THIS TATE IS........maybe if he attends the big 4 RAR re-union next year, he can loudly introduce himself.
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Nuidat68
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« Reply #232 on: Monday02November2009 »

Well no wonder they couldnt  curcumsize TATE TAR there's no end to the PRICK.
Here he is again yapping about medals which he has been on about for 30 yrs and OH DONT THINK OLE TATE TAR wants one??? Oh No he isnt like that is he.
How the frigging hell did he get his bloody sports medal  at a Bong Bong  race meeting on Crutches but I dont think so he would have run last in that as well.
Because if you dare believe his sad sob stories dont think it was any sort of football as there's no one legged Rugby in australia, Not Soccer, Not Tennis so HOW Huh Well i reckon if you read the back of his sports gong it will read " To Tate Tar" for being such a bad sport. Angry But he runs around with it on like its some big deal and medals dont mean anything to Mr Tate Tar, like hell they dont there everything to him. Grin
« Last Edit: Monday02November2009 by Nuidat68 » Logged
Fergus Fairfax
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« Reply #231 on: Monday02November2009 »

Another burst of insanity from conspiracy theory HQ committee member Tate. Once again Tate uses somebody---in this case Francis Edwards who is motivated by good----to give Tate himself a chance to peddle his own self centred propaganda and to tell the world how hard he has had life and how terrible his wounds were. Read and vomit. This mans ego is breathtaking--well no so if he is a sociopath which has been said somewhere. In Tates world there is a population of one---HIM.

From: Donald Tate
To: Allen Petersen
Sent: Saturday, 31 October 2009 6:37 AM
Subject: Re THE CYBER ASYLUM!


I'll give you a personal reply, Frances, since I know you personally, and I know you do have a genuine, sensitive soul.
Let me answer by posing a couple of questions for you...........
 
What if you'd been so disabled by the war (physically, I mean...as well as the usual psychological stuff...so we're talking the double-whammy here!) and were only able to work for some twelve years as a consequence? And what if, nevertheless, you still managed to raise five children and provide a home for them and do it for four decades on the tightest of budgets?
 
And what if, in the autumn of your life, you put your energies into one project, like writing a history of your life (or even a major musical project) as the one significant achievement of your life? And then, what if some dark forces within the veteran community, aided and abetted by a military 'royalty' determined that wanted to tear you and your work to pieces for no other reason than because you wrote one chapter (or one song, perhaps) that reflected poorly on that military 'royalty'? And what if they attacked you on many fronts using paedophiles and cowards to do their dirty work because they don't have the guts to get their own hands dirty?
 
Wouldn't you fight to the death to tear those cowardly bastards down in return? Wouldn't you use every last bit of will, intellect, and fibre to justify your finest achievement- and defend your name and character? Wouldn't you use those very same tactics they taught you all those years ago- and take them on, head-on? This is a guerrilla war of another sort, my friend- and the same rules apply. The cockroaches are still scurrying around underground in bunkers, popping their sordid heads up now and then and firing off a burst, while their puppet-masters applaud from the sidelines.
 
We are in a veteran community where men who owe debts of gratitude to the string-pullers in ivory towers, will do their bidding at a whim. What was the debt owed- a shiny, unearned medal of "gallantry"? Allowing a "mitigating excuse" into a service file to hide gross deeds? Ignoring the blatant cowardice under fire when a "leader" runs for his life and leaves half a platoon behind, not knowing for sure if they were dead or alive? Scratch my back- and I'll scratch yours.
 
Frances- until the puppet-masters come after you and start tearing down your latest song, or music album or your service, and/or your character, you simply won't ever understand. I fight back because there are those who can't. Time has taken a toll on some. They haven't got the energy or the resources so they wither away because those forces arranged against them are so nefarious, so organised, and so dedicated to protecting their little castles, they don't expect any man to have the hide or the tenacity to fight back.
 
If you read "The War Within" you'll know why I won't let those cowardly bastards get away with it. My father gave me will to fight. The army gave me the spirit to fight to the death. And knowing you Frances, I suspect that if they ever do come after you, you're the same kind of man as me at heart. It's just that, at the moment, you have no need for it.

Don Tate
author, "The War Within"
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« Reply #230 on: Tuesday27October2009 »

So, who gets the $6? The library or Tate?
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Fergus Fairfax
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« Reply #229 on: Tuesday27October2009 »

The Australian Seniors paper advertises Don Tates lecture at Noosa Library on Remembrance Day.

Addmission is $6
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« Reply #228 on: Tuesday27October2009 »

In regards to Tates "letter" to Steve Gower.

Tate: "I can advise you that I now have copies of the valuations done by Graham Shirley P/L and Dominic Case for the Valuer-General's Dept."......
  My question is, who the hell are these people? What do they know of things that happened 40yrs ago in Vn? Are they Military historians and fully qualified to pass judgement on the quality and/or content?


Tate: "First, allow me to clarify one matter- the films were donated in 1996, and not 1993. (A minor point, but I have been thrashed by others for not being absolutely precise with such details, as you know.)"
  Yes, a minor point but Tate himself has already stuffed up by quoting incorrect periods of time he served in different units so why take Steve to task on this?



Tate: "the percentage that might be used by future film-makers etc is approximately just 3% of that. But THAT figure is irrelevant in this discussion)"
  So, film makers judge that only 3% of the film is usable. To me that means that 97% of the film is worthless which works in with Steve Gowers valuation.


Tate: "Why did you feel the need to raise the issue of the value of my films with the veteran community as a whole?"
  Well I suppose it is because of the song and dance you have made about the value yourself.


Tate: "Why did you use email system instead of the more conventional method of correspondence (on AWM letterhead, for example) if you wanted to query their worth?"
  Does anyone ever remember Tate writing a letter instead of using electronic means?
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« Reply #227 on: Tuesday27October2009 »

The description for the photo is incorrect. Neil Weekes was not part of the "XXXX hidden second D & E Platoon"  He was at the photoshoot in support of them.....another photo opportunity. 

Yes AVM understands the title is incorrect. The title was taken directly from FLICKER archives and the title has been left as the archives have it presented. SEE HERE http://www.flickr.com/photos/vvfact/2543444838/
« Last Edit: Tuesday27October2009 by Spartakus » Logged

Ruger357
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« Reply #226 on: Tuesday27October2009 »



Five members of the 2nd D&E Platoon - 4RAR's 'lost platoon' - from left: Neil Weekes; Richard Bigwood; Ted Colmer; Don Tate; Kevin Lloyd-Thomas, who met with The Hon Mike Kelly MP, Parliamentary Secretary for Defence Support, at Parliament House. After extensive investigations, Mr Kelly formally acknowledged the existence of the 2nd D&E Platoon, and is in the process of ensuring that it is correctly recorded in all the historical accounts, along with its membership, leadership, and the historical record of its actions against the enemy in Vietnam 39 years ago.


The description for the photo is incorrect. Neil Weekes was not part of the "XXXX hidden second D & E Platoon"  He was at the photoshoot in support of them.....another photo opportunity. 
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Ethelred
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« Reply #225 on: Tuesday27October2009 »



Five members of the 2nd D&E Platoon - 4RAR's 'lost platoon' - from left: Neil Weekes; Richard Bigwood; Ted Colmer; Don Tate; Kevin Lloyd-Thomas, who met with The Hon Mike Kelly MP, Parliamentary Secretary for Defence Support, at Parliament House. After extensive investigations, Mr Kelly formally acknowledged the existence of the 2nd D&E Platoon, and is in the process of ensuring that it is correctly recorded in all the historical accounts, along with its membership, leadership, and the historical record of its actions against the enemy in Vietnam 39 years ago.
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Fergus Fairfax
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« Reply #224 on: Tuesday27October2009 »

Tate defames the Director of the Australian War Memorial Gen Steve Gower

From: Donald Tate
Date: 27/10/2009 12:17:34 PM
To: steve.gower@awm.com.au;  Subject: Steve Gower...and the value of my donated films to the AWM
 
27th October, 2009
 
Steve Gower
Director
Australian War Memorial
 
Dear Mr Gower
 
Recently, you sent out an email to the veteran community (widely diseminated) in which you devalued the worth of the colour films I donated to the War Memorial in 1996.
 
You stated that the donation was made in 1993, and that their value was just $5000+ or so.
 
I can advise you that I now have copies of the valuations done by Graham Shirley P/L and Dominic Case for the Valuer-General's Dept.
 
First, allow me to clarify one matter- the films were donated in 1996, and not 1993. (A minor point, but I have been thrashed by others for not being absolutely precise with such details, as you know.)
 
With respect to the valuations, I note that both assessments are relatively consistent.
 
Graham Shirley notes that the "current value' (1996) of the films is determined at a rate of $35 per second- and CLEARLY STATES that the overall value of the donated material is $90,300. (He then determines that the percentage judged to be of historical value to the War Memorial collection is: $81,270)
 
Dominic Case assesses the value of the donated films at $40 per second. Since there are 43 mins of material, HIS assessment is closer to: $113,000.
 
Both valuers clearly state that those figures represent the overall evaluation, and both agree that while they are the overall valuations, the percentage that might be used by future film-makers etc is approximately just 3% of that. But THAT figure is irrelevant in this discussion)
 
Both of these documents can be made available to any investigator. Indeed, when I am able to, they will be placed on my web site.)
 
Mr Gower, with that information now in hand, I need to ask you these questions:
 
- Why did you feel the need to raise the issue of the value of my films with the veteran community as a whole?
- Why didn't you simply communicate with me, directly?
- Why did you use email system instead of the more conventional method of correspondence (on AWM letterhead, for example) if you wanted to query their worth?
- Why did you include, among the list of veteran contacts in your letter, a despised veteran well-known to have the question mark of 'paedophile' hanging over him, knowing that he is involved in organisations that serve no purpose than to discredit and humiliate veterans of the war?
 
And finally, I must ask two further question (as indeed I have directed other bodies to ask)....
 
Mr Gower, since you occupy a position of some influence and power within the veteran community (being an ex-general and the Director of such an august institution as the AWM, and all)........
 
- Was this a deliberate attempt on your part to discredit me in the eyes of the veteran community?
- And if so, is it part of the overall, concerted campaign by senior ex-officers within the veteran community attempting to prevent the whole truth of the 2nd D&E Platoon matter from ever being aired?
 
(In asking that, I'm sure you are aware of the statement made a little while ago by the world's greatest soldier- Bob Buick, in which he declares that in publicly attacking those of us fighting to validate the existence and activities of the 2nd D&E Platoon, "his support was at the highest levels of the government and the military")
 
- Are you aware that as a result of your email into the veteran community, other veterans have latched on to it (including Alan Price of the 4RAR Association) and have used it to their advantage to further erode my credibility with the veteran world and the units I served with- and to adversely affect the sales of "The War Within" to the detriment of myself and Murdoch Books? (This is manifestly obvious to all!)
 
And finally, are you aware of the personal damge your email did to me, physically and psychologically?
 
I would appreciate an early response to this letter. You will note that this email, like yours did, is going out to the wider veteran community- and to others.
 
(The only person who is NOT receiving this, first-hand,is the animal referred to earlier. It's a personal choice- I actually distance myself from anyone suspected of paedophilia)
 
Yours Sincerely
Don Tate
author, "The War Within"


Don Tate just doesn't get it. It is always the fault of "somebody else". He never owns his own lies, bullshit, abuse and defamation. The ONLY reason Tate has not been sued is his targets can't afford lengthy and costly legal cases and can't afford to take the risk that Tate has no assets or money to pay damages. He probably has everything in his wifes name. In Tates eyes he is the only sane and decent bloke in the Veteran world and all else are drug dealers, liars, abusers, paedophiles, murderers, incompenets, fools oh  ya get the picture.

Don Tate own your own behaviour which is disgusting defamatory abusive irrational and false.
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theo
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« Reply #223 on: Tuesday27October2009 »

I purchased three copies when it first hit the shelves. Cry  I picked them up at Kmart and Myer for just under $20 each. Two went to mates (Vietnam Veterans) in the bush who didn't have ready access to such 'quality material' at a good price. One of the mates later commented, 'After reading his [Tate's] comments about his fellow Vietnam Veterans I wouldn't give him the time of day if I was wearing ten watches.'

But just think Nuidat68: Tate's book might become a collectable and we can all get rich on the worst history ever written of the Vietnam War.   Roll Eyes

Just kidding, of course. This book could never really profit anyone anything!
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Nuidat68
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« Reply #222 on: Tuesday27October2009 »

Theo the word has got around the traps in the USA via vet centre's and Vet associations NOT TO BUY TATES BOOK of FICTION .If anybody has any contacts across the pond them warn them NOT to waste their hard earned on this book on one blokes Fantasy trip in vietnam while on Woopy Weed Grin Who in there right mind would pay 122 bucks for a book thats worth nothing and how the bloody hell he can say !!!! His book changed the  HISTORY of Australia's role in vietnam, Bullshit I reckon he's stilll on Woopy Weed Shocked.   

I for one will NEVER except that for ONE month at 1 ATF Nui Dat this band of Brothers? ( Some not as close anymore so Brothers might not be the right word now )  anyway they run around the "J" being lead by a Pte Jim Riddle the higests ranking digger in the platoon, No Officers, No NCO's No instructions and if so FROM WHOM Pte Riddle?? Who now has much more to say now he is back in England. So Dont waste your money on a book of FICTION. Angry
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theo
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« Reply #221 on: Monday26October2009 »

It doesn't appear to be at the AWM shop either. I have a copy, most of which I've read, but I alternated so rapidly between depression and incredulity that I didn't know whether to take another antidepressant or a salt tablet. I'm keeping it until the demand becomes so high that I can sell it on eBay or the black market at an exorbitant price. (See attachment.)

 Cool


* The_War_Within.jpg (63.09 KB, 653x331 - viewed 1234 times.)
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Nuidat68
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« Reply #220 on: Monday26October2009 »

If tates book is so wonderful as he keeps telling everyone then how come ive never seen it in the VETAFFAIRS Newspaper as ive just recived the Sept-Oct and GUESS WHAT its not there. Roll Eyes and i havent seen it in any volume of VETAFFAIRS?Huh Did i miss seeing it ?? God i hope not LOL.
 
 Its the worst book ive read in many years and I didnt buy it not on your life the wife of a decorated vietnam veteran bought it for him for fathers day and he loan it to me to read as he was already reading a great book on Korea where he fought as an 18 yr old and after i read it i told him what i thought of it and he still hasnt read it . There was another reason he didnt read it and thats was he had heard of the shit Tate was putting on Brig Sandy Pearson and being the Proffessional soldier he was and how tate had rubbished the Good and very Frail Brig Pearson and members of the AWM where many of his things hang in the halls, he was just discusted in tate's attack on these men.
So if you want to read a book about how a bloke never had his ole fella out of his hand then its the book for you , but I would rather re-read Paul Ham's VIETNAM. The Australian War. Wink
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D371
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« Reply #219 on: Sunday25October2009 »

Hi Tate,

I'm now  a coward am I? You were the one who hid when I last had a crack at you and you screamed: "You can't hit me I'm a wounded Vietnam veteran". Tate, guess what, I can! and I will.

I promised you that time that if you ever cast aspersations on me, ever again, I would comie knocking on your front door.

Believe me arsehole, I'm coming! Don't send your wife or daughters to open the door. Have some guts and you open the bloody thing!
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« Reply #218 on: Sunday25October2009 »

From: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: admin@austvetmatters.net
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 6:34 PM
Subject:  Don Tate

Dear Sirs,   

I am the wife of a Vietnam Veteran ( 35 odd years).

I have scanned over 3,500 slides of 1 Troop 1968-1969 and I am quite prepared to sign a Statuary Declaration to the effect that I have never seen a slide of Norman Rowe performing a "Concert" or "Show" in Xuyen Moc.

Sure, at Fire bases, I have photos of Norm and "guys" mucking around with his guitar and, also, concerts at Vungers, but definitely not "out in the bush".

For your information, Don Tate, if a book is published as "non fiction" you can't change your mind 12-18 months after publication about any incident. Your book should be classified as "fiction", as I strongly believe, most of your story is all in your mind.

Also, Don Tate,  how dare you claim someone upset your wife at a "Book Selling" spiel.  From my "experience", wives of Vets of over 2 decades are either very "strong women" or "doormats". You cannot have it both ways.....

It appears no one else is entitled to an opinion other than your own. Time to grow up and seek medical help.

Yours Sincerely,

Wife of a Vet



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« Reply #217 on: Sunday25October2009 »

TATE---At Payneham, my wife suffered badly from what that animal did. [Former members of the Cavalry are not animals Tate and what he did was ask you for the truth which you could not provide] and no one needs to be subjected to that sort of thing, and certainly not in public. Infantrymen who were present told me that the individual is a well known loud mouth who causes trouble locally. [As I have said before he is from the East coast so they are way off base]

TATE---So you cavalry boys- get over it. [Not likely Donny boy. We will pursue you to the end.]

TATE---Up to now, I've kept this to myself, but the attacks by cavalrymen can't go on. [Yes they can and yes they will until you tell the truth Donny. You have desecrated the name of a proud regiment by your lies, so suffer.].

It has come to my attention that because Tom Arrowsmith's troop was a Independent troop at Thua Tich and all on board came under his command including the Infantry, [In Tate's word, "Assault Troopers"], there was only one roll book with all their names on it for resupply purposes. We will now pursue this roll book to see whose names we come up with and put Tate's lies to bed for good.
« Last Edit: Sunday25October2009 by Cavalry » Logged
Zionist
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« Reply #216 on: Sunday25October2009 »

Donald “I’m a War hero” Tate has sent out some of his most abysmal sickening panicky emails ever. He is cracking under the pressure of the truth and accountability.  AVM has gotten hold of these gems as usual through contacts via a network of many keen supporters and workers. Don Tate once again displays his arrogant disregard for anybody and anything but Don Tate. Tate needs to understand that if his wife and family are feeling the pressure of his work then of course that is a direct result of his activities. Tate has no regard for the well being or sensibilities of anybody including his own family as long as he has his name in neon signs as long as he can spin his lies and abuse and as long as he sucks in the money from his books.

His latest emails are published below in full and unedited but before you read them AVM  has extracted sections of his panicky abuse and threats and made some comment.

TATE---- I have been advised to write this letter by a man I respect. He's right- it's time I did.

AVM---The only person he has referred to like this in previous emails is Brig George Mansford RETD

TATE---Librarians were alerted by me, previously, so they were prepared. At Payneham Library (SA), I was given a hard time by a cavalryman (made sure he had a mate with him, of course)

AVM---That would be the sensible thing to do. Knowing Tates previous violent and irrational behaviour anything could have happened. This shows sensibility not cowardice.

TATE--- Librarians were alerted by me, previously, so they were prepared. At Payneham Library (SA), I was given a hard time by a cavalryman (made sure he had a mate with him, of course) about the 2nd D&E Platoon matter. Seems there are still those who can't accept that the Army History Unit got it right- and so did Mike Kelly MP....

AVM---Let’s see what the final volume of the Vietnam War says. Where are Dr Kelly MP and Jenny George MP these days? They have never uttered a word since Dr Kellys hasty media release.AVM says the PM had a few words to say to Dr Kelly. Tate publish the advice from the Army History Unit in full.

TATE---His major outburst concerned my reference to Normie Rowe's 'concert' in Xuyen Moc, which he insisted didn't happen. (Normie doesn't remember it either, apparently. Hmmm.)

AVM---Well Normie Rowe has no reason to lie and nothing to gain from lying. Tate does. AVMs observations of Rowe is he is upfront honest and decent.

TATE--- Well....for the record, EVERY INFANTRYMAN from that 2nd D&E Platoon (including Dennis Manski and Riddle) remembers it clearly.

AVM--- Give the community their names and declaratory statements. AVM holds confidential information in which Jim Riddle lambasts Tate and calls him a liar like Ted Colmer has done. A promise has been made not to publish them at this stage.

TATE--- Perhaps the problem lies in my use of the word 'concert'...what it was, was a few songs sung on a wooden plank- an impromptu 'perfomance' then....

AVM—Oh so now it’s not a concert but a few songs. Even Tate knows the difference between the two so why say concert for years

TATE--- So you cavalry boys- get over it. It happened, and I shook hands with Rowe,

AVM—Not according to Rowe and others who have absolutely nothing to gain from lying.

TATE---. Anyway, it's an irrelevant issue in the greater scheme of things.

AVM---Why has Tate spent so much time on this subject then over the years?

TATE--- His accusation was that because I hadn't responded to Colmer's last outburst in August, it meant what Colmer said must be true. This is always the case.

AVM---Ted Colmer has made his public statements and why would he lie? After all he was probably the chief architect of the D&E Platoon case. Colmers evidence stands and is valid. Tate fears Colmer because Ted Colmer is privy to much much more information which will damn Tate. Tate is now denigrating and betraying a man who was his loyal worker and ally. Typical. All things for Don Tate.

TATE--- The fact was, cooler (and wiser) heads than mine had suggested I let it go

AVM---Mansford and Weekes?

TATE---In the interim, what I'll do is release parts of a letter


AVM---Why parts? Are these just the parts which suit Tates agenda?

TATE---a very high-ranking Armoured Corps officer,

AVM---Name him. If what he says is true both of you have nought to fear.

TATE---In the interim, what I'll do is release parts of a I received from a very high-ranking Armoured Corps officer, many months ago, in which he states categorically that blowing up bodies by cavalry was not an isolated occurrence, and that everyone knew about the dragging of bodies behind APC's.

AVM---Everyone knew??? If this Officer and others witnessed events such as this and failed to report them at the time then they have breached the Geneva Conventions on Warfare. This is a serious offence in our society. If Tate witnessed such events and failed to report them at the time he too is guilty of serious crimes under the Conventions. Tate your witness is very tarnished if what you say is true and he should be hauled before the International Criminal Court as should you.

TATE---- Up to now, I've kept this to myself,

 AVM—Why not formally present this information you say you hold to the Federal Attorney. Knowingly withholding information in relation to a crime is an offence under the Federal Crimes Act. You cannot play pick and choose and play games with the Law.

TATE--Tom Arrowsmith himself, needs to intervene, very smartly.


AVM---Tom Arrowsmith is very old and sick and he doesn’t need Tates rubbish. Who does Tate think he is making demands like this.

TATE---- At Payneham, my wife suffered badly


AVM---Oh the old fall back position. I will commit suicide if you don’t leave me alone and my family is suffering. Spare me. YOU Tate are responsible for dragging your wife around the country and subjecting her to all types of pressures because you will use anybody to get what you want.

TATE---individual is a wel-known loudmouth who causes trouble locally.


AVM---Well then they must know his name. Name him.


TATE--- He's also a subscriber and a correspondent to the paedophile site,

AVM—Prove this ghost is an AVM member and prove your vile allegations about AVM.

TATE---At Payneham, my wife suffered badly from what that animal did- and no one needs to be subjected to that sort of thing, and certainly not in public. Infantrymen who were present told me that the individual is a wel-known loudmouth who causes trouble locally. He's also a subscriber and a correspondent to the paedophile site, and I'll catch up with him in the long run.

AVM---This is a totally different version of the library presentation to the Tate version from a week or so ago.

TATE--- In the interim, it's my turn....


AVM---Publish the whole letter with name so we can read what has allegedly been said by whom and in context. Was it a statutory declaration?  If so produce it.

TATE--- And finally, I have met (and recorded the names of) a number of former cavalrymen

AVM---Name them

TATE---I am also privy to the whereabouts of certain photographs and movie footage NOT taken by either Bellis or Gibbons that I shall keep to myself till the right moment.

AVM---Publish them and take them to the AWM.

TATE---Even most recently ,a high-profile public figure attempted to discredit the value of my colour films


AVM---Name him/her.

TATE--"The War Within" was the first book to record these matters

AVM---What matters? Name them. 


TATE--- Not too many books are able to alter a nation's military history

AVM---Tates ego is breath taking.

TATE---And yes- unlike 'Bomber' and that cretin, 'Bud Cramer (or Mowgli, as he preferred) I was a member of that platoon at all times, and always in the field with them.

AVM---Not according to Ted Colmer who was at the Thua Tich ambush and not according to emails from Riddle.

 
From: Donald Tate
Sent: Saturday, 24 October 2009 8:10 AM
Subject: Fw: cavalrymen verify the matters at Thua Tich, May 29th 1969
 
(I have been advised to write this letter by a man I respect. He's right- it's time I did.)
 
Veterans-As usual, on my last trip, librarians in SA and VIC were sent letters from some coward (anonymously, of course) about my visits. Par for the course.
 
Librarians were alerted by me, previously, so they were prepared. At Payneham Library (SA), I was given a hard time by a cavalryman (made sure he had a mate with him, of course) about the 2nd D&E Platoon matter. Seems there are still those who can't accept that the Army History Unit got it right- and so did Mike Kelly MP....
 
His major outburst concerned my reference to Normie Rowe's 'concert' in Xuyen Moc, which he insisted didn't happen. (Normie doesn't remember it either, apparently. Hmmm.)
 
Well....for the record, EVERY INFANTRYMAN from that 2nd D&E Platoon (including Dennis Manski and Riddle) remembers it clearly. Perhaps the problem lies in my use of the word 'concert'...what it was, was a few songs sung on a wooden plank- an impromptu 'perfomance' then
 
So you cavalry boys- get over it. It happened, and I shook hands with Rowe, and personally thanked him, afterwards. Anyway, it's an irrelevant issue in the greater scheme of things
 
Then- he got on to the 2nd D&E Platoon matter.
 
His accusation was that because I hadn't responded to Colmer's last outburst in August, it meant what Colmer said must be true. This is always the case..
 
If one responds, it throws fuel on the fire, And if one doesn't, then others conclude that what was said must be true. You are caught between a rock and a hard place.The fact was, cooler (and wiser) heads than mine had suggested I let it go because of Colmer's personal problems. So I did. However, I need to re-think that. I have a great deal of ammunition.
 
In the interim, what I'll do is release parts of a I received from a very high-ranking Armoured Corps officer, many months ago, in which he states categorically that blowing up bodies by cavalry was not an isolated occurrence, and that everyone knew about the dragging of bodies behind APC's.
 
Up to now, I've kept this to myself, but the attacks by cavalrymen can't go on. Tom Arrowsmith himself, needs to intervene, very smartly
 
At Payneham, my wife suffered badly from what that animal did- and no one needs to be subjected to that sort of thing, and certainly not in public. Infantrymen who were present told me that the individual is a wel-known loudmouth who causes trouble locally. He's also a subscriber and a correspondent to the paedophile site, and I'll catch up with him in the long run.
 
In the interim, it's my turn....

The letter from that officer (below), in its entirety, has been forwarded to the AFP as part of their investigations. The extract below should quieten those critics. (Remember, this is from a top-ranking cavalryman):
 
....."The rapid deployment of 2 troop would most likely have been based on intelligence from a number of sources including the SAS and Sigint. It was not unusual for such an operation to be conducted by the 3 Cav HQ and, under such circumstances, "seagull' would, in all likelihood, have been the Sqn Comd Major Ron Rooks. I honestly cannot remember if Ron Rooks accompanied us that morning but logic would say that, as it was his operation, he could well have been on the Commanders chopper (Albatross 05) that morning. His HQ was only 100m from the chopper pad.
I am aware that "engineer" funerals did occur, particularly when people were short of time and had to move on quickly. Except for the major actions there were certainly no battlefield burial parties and the smaller independent ops had to make do. During my time in 2 troop we always returned bodies to the closest RF/PF post. Nobody liked carrying them inside the vehicles, as we had to sleep inside, and carrying them on the trim-vane was most unpleasant for the driver; so movement of bodies was always a problem (if they were particularly badly knocked about by .50cal they were difficult to pick up) There had been a row previously when bodies had been dragged behind vehicles; so it was a difficult situation that remained unresolved......"
And for those who might have missed cavalryman Allan Stanton's book - "Before I Forget", I now provide an extract from it about the very same action. (Stanton was Arrowsmith's driver):
 
"The Arrow (Capt Tom Arrowsmith), like me, did not want the bodies in the cargo area of our carrier, so it was decided to take five bodies, tie them together and hang them by their ankles from the back of the carrier for the trip back to Xuyen Moc.
"Before leaving the ambush site we had one further task to perform- dispose of the other six bodies. We dragged them to an old bomb crater just to the side of the old gates of the deserted village. Along with the bodies were placed explosives, hand grenades, a number of Claymore mines, a few gallons of petrol and a long fuse cord.
"The fuse was lit and about five minutes later the explosion of our crude burial could be heard.
....... (After the second VC attack on the way to Xuyen Moc)...
"There was now one more task to perform before our return to the Dat- take the bodies of the five VC still hanging from the back of Two-Alpha-Zero (Stanton 's APC) into the village square. I knew they were still there by the shocked looks on the faces of the locals as we drove through the village......
"The bodies were cut from the carrier and left with the village chief to do what he wanted with them."
 
And finally, I have met (and recorded the names of) a number of former cavalrymen who are not reluctant to speak of their experiences under Capt Tom Arrowsmith at Thua Tich and en route into Xuyen Moc.
 
I am also privy to the whereabouts of certain photographs and movie footage NOT taken by either Bellis or Gibbons that
I shall keep to myself till the right moment
 
I know that there are forces out there determined to keep the truth of these matters under wraps- and personal attacks against me has been concerted and unrelenting. Even most recently ,a high-profile public figure attempted to discredit the value of my colour films - but has come undone because he used a known paedophile as the carrier-pidgeon.
 
"The War Within" was the first book to record these matters - and the final step in the formal recognition of the 2nd D&E Platoon. Not too many books are able to alter a nation's military history.
 
And yes- unlike 'Bomber' and that cretin, 'Bud Cramer (or Mowgli, as he preferred) I was a member of that platoon at all times, and always in the field with them.
 
As I was with "D) Coy 4RAR, and "C" Coy, 9RAR- till the day I was wounded. And as my films verify, absolutely.
 
Don Tate
Author, "The War Within" (Murdoch Books)
 
"Don I love it! Your words took me there. You have an innocence and frankness that's empathy personified. Your lack of ego, and your simple randiness are rare in a war story. My style is totally different in that I lack the naivete that comes through in yours. You are as astounded at your luck and experiences as the non battle-hardened reader will be. I believe many soldiers and non-soldiers will relate to your story. Probably Shielas too!!"
- JAMES B. RIDDLE, ex-British Commandos, ex-4RAR, ex- 2nd D&E Platoon; ex-8RAR; ex-9RAR; ex-4RAR (SECOND TOUR); ex-D&E Platoon
 
           - Richard Aedy, ABC Radio National

From: Donald Tate
To: Allen Petersen
Sent: Saturday, 24 October 2009 12:02 PM
Subject: Go, viper!

Hey....you've got to like this new correspondent to the AVM website- "VIPER"!
He's actually got some balls, standing up to that paedophile, Fergus. Good onya mate, whoever you are. Perhaps you need to inform Rockhampton residents that there's a known paedophile slyly hiding among them......lock up all the little boys in the area. Who's that Queensland woman who chased Ferguson out of NSW?
Gee, I just noticed that 'Fergus' is very close to 'Ferguson'
An interesting choice of names for a coward, that's for sure.
Go Viper!
Don Tate
author, "The War Within"


In conclusion Don Tate is one unbalanced warped and vicious wannabe who has a mind like a sewer and a history to match. Goodness knows how many innocent lives he has abused over the years to get what HE wants. Tate is your typical sociopath. This ably sums him up.
« Last Edit: Sunday25October2009 by Zion » Logged
Nuidat68
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« Reply #215 on: Sunday25October2009 »

Im singing in the rain, just singing in the rain, what a wonderful story of 5 songs in the "J"  Roll Eyes
Charlie asked when's the next CONCERT Again Grin

It has now changed from Concert To maybe HuhHuh??  What next . I can see it now Big stage with coloured lights blazing Amps belting out Cav & Infantry doing "The Charlie Swat" and Charlie  Stomping to " Auc Da Loi" He Can Sing , he come back with lots of Bling.

Ok men its back to work  this is Too Much fun for this digger in one  day.
Surfs Up & Lifes a Beach. Wink
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« Reply #214 on: Saturday17October2009 »

 I dare you.

Mr Tate, I know you have issues with me, and for that I have no care. However you make certain claims that put into question my service in Vietnam, and suggest that I was protected from any dangerous work that might result in injury, wounding or indeed death.

I will now challenge you to publish the evidence that corroborates any of these claims you have suggested. Let the world see your supporting evidence and any supporting bibliography or orders by commanders.
If you have no evidence to prove your claims, I suggest you withdraw them and apologise for the defamation to my character, and further that you do the same for my Unit it's Members and Superiors, and carry that apology through to the 1ATF Commander.

This is the only way you might be able to resurrect some of your rather tarnished reputation
Be courageous and publish in full what you are suggesting and then prove it, Mr Tate. I dare you.

Norman J Rowe, AM
 
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« Reply #213 on: Friday16October2009 »

More for Tate to read from another site.

Norm. I was with you at all times when I joined 1 troop. To my knowledge you never gave a performance in the scrub. You did at the Badcoe club on r&c and I have photo's of it. You sang in a few bars as well but best leave that alone. As for Tate you don't have to justify your actions to anybody. As for special treatment I can testify that quite the reverse, you were sometimes given a harder time than others. I remember clearly the mine incident and can assure you that if it happen today I'd hit the ground with a splat and need a ladder to get back on board. If anyone doubts your capacity as a soldier let me know and I'll tell them that as soon as you realised we were disabled you placed your carrier between the bush line and us in case the mine was command detonated with the possibility of ambush. Not an act of a cotton wool wraped prima donna

And one more re the concert:

Normie, I think you are correct in trying to ascertain the facts because Tate and his cohorts are running a muck and accusing all and sundry of all sorts of deeds. The reality is that every cav member I knew on both tours carried a camera, and if you had conducted a concert anywhere there would be a large number of photographs. There is not one!! There is no question that Tate is stirring up trouble to promote his book, however he has well and truly been exposed on Australian Veterans Matters and ANZMI, two excellent websites that deal with wannabes.

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« Reply #212 on: Friday16October2009 »

Some facts Tate.

1. (why do cavalrymen always feel inclined to travel in pairs?) Because we had two man crews Donny and that mateship is still with us to this day.
2. (but probably saw no action whatsoever at any time) He saw more action that you and had the paintwork messed up a couple of times on his call sign by RPG's and mines.
3. (but he beat a hasty retreat) Don, the cavalry never retreat, they will do a tactical withdrawal and come up on the flanks for another attack at a different location.
4. (last seen holding hands with his mate on the way to his car) What car, you mean the bike don't you.
5. (the librarian asked him to leave) If seems that all non Infantry veterans are asked to leave when you are asked the hard questions by the cavalry Don.
6. (lknow him to be a local loudmouth in veterans organisations) Not bad for a Interstate bloke. Local you say and in what state is that.
7. (I was prepared to take him on) That would have been interesting as he did 3 years in a past life in the ring as a light heavyweight.
8. (I wonder if he saw any action, or was ever wounded himself) Yes and yes.
9. (paedophile-loving (probably homosexual)) What's the old saying, "It takes one to know one" but know he is not.

Don. The 3rd cavalry regiment association are having a reunion in Canberra at the end of this month and into November and 2 troop except one that were at Thua Tich have asked me to invite you as they have a couple of questions they would like to ask you, if you would be so kind.

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« Reply #211 on: Friday16October2009 »

Have a go at this Tate........from another site.

Posted on 16/10/2009 at 09:39:06 by Normie Rowe

Can anyone, particularly in 1Tp mid ''69, remember the concert Tate claims I gave in Thua Tich or Xuyen Moc.
Tate assures us all in his book that this happened shortly after his big "ambush"?
I'm not saying whether I did or not. I can't remember everything I was involved in, in Vn. in fact I can't remember most things,because I was very successful at blocking out my whole tour as I was encouraged to do on RTA.
The thing is, yes I remember visiting and dining with the village chief etc just prior to Civil Affairs coming to build houses and supply water to the village.
I can't remember ever taking my guitar on any operation but the ones that had as there focus, FSB Julia, and FSB Kerry in early '69. There was just no space on actual ops and it didn't need to be there. I have noticed that we all have the propensity to remember things differently.
I'm only slightly miffed at the suggestion that I was wrapped in cotton wool for my tour, as that would place a slur on any Cav member who might've carried the same duties as I. That includes anyone who led a troop up the Thai Tien trail (Mine Alley) or played Radio-op of Sunray any troop. (Peter Waldeck followed me into 10A as radio operator and was a victim of a mine attack on Mine Alley the first day I led 1Tp along that track. That mine belonged to me if not for arse. Sorry Wally, i love you brother, but #### your athleticism impressed me in the split second you were blown from the back of the car. You made that 10 metre leap in a flash.
I'm glad though that Peter is still with us to be able to tell the tale.
Anyway back to my first point, that "Concert" let me know.
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Nuidat68
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« Reply #210 on: Friday16October2009 »

Come on Don Tate!!!!!!!!!
Who the bloody hell would be singing 5 songs out in the Boonies?HuhHuh? Not Normie Rowe or anybody else for that matter. What C/o would let the troops be entertained by any singer strumming away and belting out 5 songs outside the Wire of Nui-Dat .
You gotta be joking for gods sake GET REAL you say your an Infantryman and on that operation was lead by Pte Jim Riddle??? Then why if he was such a great leader of Infantrymen didnt he tell who ever was singing these 5 songs to "SHUT The F@@K UP"  as it was an operation not a CONCERT.
 Think about what your saying, it just doesnt make sence if this did happen you were all very badly lead by who ever was in charge of your little group attached to D&E Platoon 1ATF NUI Dat awaiting Transfer.
« Last Edit: Friday16October2009 by Nuidat68 » Logged
Ethelred
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« Reply #209 on: Friday16October2009 »

From: xxxxxxxxxxx
To: (Aust Veteran Matters)
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 12:31 PM
Subject: Tate's SA Trip

From B9S33

“Read Tate’s little story on his SA trip last night, and I must admit to you all I am sorry for not getting back earlier with this reply.   My excuse was that I have only just been able to get off the floor from a belly ache laughter that he wrote, and can not come back with a better reply than that of Tate’s reply.

He has definitely lost the plot along with his mate Wiltshire.”


This is the Tate email referred to

From:
Date: 15/10/2009 10:29:47 AM
To:
I have received a copy of a letter written to the AVM website by a cavalryman who attended one of the Adelaide events.
I make the following comment about this bloke and his letter:
- he attended with one of his cavalrymen mates (why do cavalrymen always feel inclined to travel in pairs?)
- he stated that he was a member of Lawrence's troop (which replaced Arrowsmith's) so not only wasn't he present at Thua Tich, but probably saw no action whatsoever at ant time
- he makes reference to a matter raised by another coward ("D371") which he thinks must be true, and was amazed when I tackled him about it
- yes, I asked him had he ever served in the war (fair question) and also asked him his name. He didn't give it to me...said I'd take out an AVO against him (I have only ever taken out two- against a sailor who harassed me for 9 years, and a paedophile with whom I think most men would find any connection with, abhorrent
- I was prepared to take him on, but he beat a hasty retreat...last seen holding hands with his mate on the way to his car
- the librarian asked him to leave, simply because the arrogant weakling thought that attempting to humiliate and embarrass a person in public was acceptable Behaviour
- in attempting to answer his smartalec questions, it was obvious he wasn't interested in any answer, or in any proof...basically made a fool of himself
- other infantry veterans present state that they know him to be a local loudmouth in veterans organisations
- he makes reference to my wounds...I wonder if he saw any action, or was ever wounded himself?
- he made reference to Colmerm and why I hadn't replied to his last outburst...the answer? Simply because wiser and cooler heads advised me not to.
BUT TRUST ME, the day will come.
Other than for that paedophile-loving (probably homosexual) correspondent to the AVM website, the events have gone really well. The highlight was some 70 people at Tea Tree Gully Library
- OH...and Normie.....yes, the bastard did perform about 5 songs or so at Thua Tich. And every infantryman remembers it.
Don Tate
author, "The War Within" (Murdoch Books)
 "..an amazing book...a remarkable read.."     
           - Richard Aedy, ABC Radio National
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« Reply #208 on: Friday16October2009 »

From: xxxxxxxxxxx
To: (Aust Veteran Matters)
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 12:31 PM
Subject: Tate's SA Trip

From B9S33

“Read Tate’s little story on his SA trip last night, and I must admit to you all I am sorry for not getting back earlier with this reply.   My excuse was that I have only just been able to get off the floor from a belly ache laughter that he wrote, and can not come back with a better reply than that of Tate’s reply.

He has definitely lost the plot along with his mate Wiltshire.”
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« Reply #207 on: Friday09October2009 »

AVM has received the following email. As usual this email will be sent around the web.

Tate you still need to respond to the other emails in this thread. You are very willing to sing your own praises but show no willingness to answer various questions which have been asked of you. Why not? Self praise is no recommendation.

The following email speaks for itself. We make one point if we may and that is " it seems obvious to us Tate loves having a captive, ill informed audience which he can lie and boast to".

From: XXXXXX
To: admin@austvetmatters.net
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 10:19 AM
Subject:Don Tate

I attended a book presentation by Don Tate to see if he would answer some questions about his service in Vietnam and what he has written in the Vietnam section of his book.

Here is a man that spends considerable time telling the audience how he has suffered through life and how he was wounded attacking a bunker system. It was all about himself and how life has dealt him a bad set of cards.  So what, he is no "Robinson Crusoe"on that score.

The film presentation showed nothing out of the ordinary.  He is boasting it is now worth $200,000  - damn boring.  I can see why the AWM values it at a nominal $5,000.  Also, he reckons he has sold 9000 books. I wonder if DVA would be interested in this information.

The staging of his presentation is so closely managed it leaves very little time to ask questions in front of the audience.(approx. 15).  I believe he prefers to speak one on one which, I presume, he thinks gives him the advantage.

Tate does not like Tom Arrowsmith and uses old footage of an interview of Tom's to further his belief about the 2nd D & E platoon.  However, another Cav guy came to the talk with me and explained, to Don baby, a lot about the formation of the platoon and why it did not have an officer during the ambush. Tate was stumped - he had no answer. It demonstrates his very limited knowledge of anything Army.

He still believes that D & E platoon did not receive recognition for their efforts in the ambush at Thua Tich. When it was pointed out the platoon had received recognition from Tom Arrowsmith in his official report, and previous publications, Tate sought to distort that by stating there were more than one D & E platoon operating at the same time.

He did not like being questioned about how many KIA's the platoon had, even when it was pointed out at the time of the ambush it was only eleven.  This warped man must be counting blood trails.

When I questioned him about Normie Rowe giving a concert at Xuyen Moc, after the Thua Tich ambush, he was adamant that it happened. I told him I and many members of Cavalry, who were there at the same time support my view that it did not happen.  He did not like that answer - but stuck to his guns. I think he has told his stories so many times he now believes his own bullshit.

He was questioned about a response to Ted Colmer's open letter. Ted now, according to Tate, has "lost the plot".

He raves on in his spiel about overseas websites and "gutless, nameless pricks". I pointed out to Tate that I was one of the "gutless pricks" and here to ask questions. Yes, he did ask for my name, numerous times, but I refused and told everyone he needed that to issue an AVO.

When everyone was breaking for coffee I started to leave and he followed me outside. He did not like my earlier questions.  By this time I had had enough and asked him about the rumour re the Dapto Police report and him dropping his trousers. Boy did that send him off. He started trying to intimidate me by questioning my service (ie "I don't believe you were even in Vietnam" etc.).   He reverted to a gutless man threatening to hit me. He was informed if he did he would not get up. I then turned my back on him and left.

His book is supposed to be a warts and all record of his life. I wonder if the police report etc is mentioned.  Maybe worth a question.

I found Don Tate to be an embittered, shallow and cowardly man who likes telling the world about how bad it has been for him.

He has no respect for the army, its officers or anyone that dares to dispute his record of events.

It is a pity that members of the public will believe his story and this denigrates the service of all other veterans.





Disclaimer:  This email may contain privileged and confidential information. If you are not an intended recipient you must not copy, distribute or take any action in relation to it.  If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the email from your system
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« Reply #206 on: Wednesday30September2009 »

Tate has a well honed propensity for lying, fabricating,embellishing and speaking silliness.

Therefore it is always difficult to judge just what is truth, what is lies, what is accurate, what is inaccurate and what is fact and what is fiction when Tate opens his mouth or gets his keyboard out.

Having said that, if it is true that his alleged Solicitor has given him this advice regarding AVM we suggest he hires new help because if this advice has been given it shows his solicitors are as silly and immature as he is.

We think his solicitor has got him all fired up by giving emotional clap trap advice and he has become convinced he will be able to do a Sherlock Holmes.

Sorry Don. Get a new Solicitor and understand the Police have no interest in arguments between Veterans.
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« Reply #205 on: Wednesday30September2009 »

Look what just fell off the back of a truck..........

From: Donald Tate
To: Allen Petersen ; Bernie ; tjimw1@iprimus.com.au
Sent: Wednesday, 30 September 2009 3:44 PM
Subject: AVM web site


This is to confirm that today (Wednesday) I took the first step towards seeking damages against Peter Edwards (cavtrooper66) for an email he sent out through the veteran community in April. I have been advised that the partners are interested in pursuing the AVM web site as well, and told me that :
 
NO ONE is invisible since 9//11...that every person who enters the internet, who starts up a web site, who contributes to
or posts a comment on a website, or who uses materials posted on those web sites is indeed, traceable, and accountable. There is nowhere to hide, whatsoever.
 
The legal action will follow police action.
 
What this means is that the gutless cowards at the AVM website had better start running. You ARE going to be identified, and you WILL be held to account.


Don Tate
 
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Fergus Fairfax
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« Reply #204 on: Wednesday30September2009 »

I have been watching Tates abuse, threats and vilification for ages. We get back what we give out, or hasn't Tate learned that life lesson. If any of us are going to sit in moral judgement on anybody else we must be beyond reproach, and who of us can say we fit the bill? There is no room in the Veteran community for the type of vicious moralism which Tate, Corse, Briggs, Wiltshire and Joyce have engaged in.
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dodger39
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« Reply #203 on: Wednesday30September2009 »

If you want to read a transcript of the first half of his talk go here

http://www.moreland.vic.gov.au/about-council/news-media/podcasts/don-tate-podcast.html

Note: due to technical difficulties, this recording and transcription is missing the final part of the talk.

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« Reply #202 on: Wednesday30September2009 »

I think Don Tate talking about his Vietnam experiences, which we know are a pack of lies, on the 11th of November is inappropriate.  1st of April would better suit him.  Surely there are a number of veterans prepared to fork out $6.00 just to get the truth out there.  I don't like the idea of peopl,e who were not at the front line buying his book which distorts the truth.
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« Reply #201 on: Wednesday30September2009 »

He hasn't got the guts to take up the challenge.
I see he is about to grace the Sunshine Coast with a vist in November. Perhaps someone could ask him there. http://www.mysunshinecoast.com.au/events/events-display/author-talk-with-don-tate,40754,57534
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« Reply #200 on: Tuesday29September2009 »


AN OPEN LETTER TO DON TATE

Under normal circumstances we have no interest in the private lives of anybody. However with Don Tate the circumstances are different. Tate has set the gold standard with his incessant ,vicious and baseless attacks on the characters, private lives and integrity of many Veterans. His favourite vomitous sprays accuse many people of being paedophiles, drug dealers and murderers. Each time somebody confronts Tate with their opinion or their version of matters, and each time Don Tate is confronted with information which contradicts his own he attacks not the facts with facts but attacks the characters and integrity of those who ask legitimate questions or make valid points.
 
We therefore, abiding by the standards set by Tate and mad galahs Corse, Briggs, Wiltshire and Keith Joyce, ask Don Tate the following question.
 
We have received Police information which states that when Don Tate was a teacher at Dapto he removed his trousers in front of school children to show off scars from his War wounds. It has been stated that Tate said the following or similar to those children.
 
"You're not a man until you have been shot by the enemy"
 
We have been advised that if an incident like this had occurred two years later than it is said to have occured it would have meant very serious Police charges in relation to children. The Police say they were called to this incident.
 
Tate and his mates have accused all and sundry of paedophilia but we will not use the same vicious standard. We make no claims about Tates private life however we now ask Don Tate to respond to AVM and confirm or deny this information.
 
We remind Don that in an email he said in relation to some children  “I was bashed and robbed in a school toilet at night;”. Why did these kids attack you Don?
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« Reply #199 on: Sunday27September2009 »

Don Tate now has the statements/emails of three Veterans to respond to. Three Veterans have provided first hand statements of Tates service in 4 RAR and the D&E Platoon.

Those Veterans are his Section Commander in 4 RAR, an SAS member who was in the area of the Thua Tich ambush and Ted Colmer who was part of the Thua Tich ambush.

Our challenge to Tate is to respond honestly to all three and either prove these Veterans wrong OR apologise to the Australian Veteran community and the Australian public for lying and embellishing his Service.

Tate has not just the contents of his book to explain, he has to explain the numerous emails he has sent around the country making all sorts of claims about his service.

Over to you Donny boy. We know you read this website and Forum. No more changing the subject, no more red herrings, no more obfuscation and no more lies.

Let's hear from you.

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« Reply #198 on: Saturday26September2009 »

We have received the following email which we post with permission. At this stage we have deleted the senders name. We have asked the sender if he wishes his name to be left in place on his email.

 
From: xxxxxxx
To: admin@austvetmatters.net
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 2:08 PM
Subject: Don Tate


Hi
For info my name is xxxx xxxx
 
I was Don Tates Sec Commd for the entire time he served with DCoy 4RAR,,

Tate was initially in 7Sec 12pl DCoy,,

Then Sec moved to become 2Sec 10PL for last 2-3 mnths of tour.
 
Donny Tate survived in my Sec for one reason,and one reason only,,the Company politics of that time.
 
I have followed  Don antics over the years and when have dared to offer corrections to his "Vivid Recollections"",, have been the recipient of many of his abusive emails..
 
Donny just never gets it fully correct,and never lets the facts get in the way of "His" good story
 
In his latest he speaks of the praise for him from his peers.
 
Claiming Ian Morrison was Sec Commd in 10Pl and spoke highly of him..
 
Ian "Zunt" Morrison was never in 10Pl nor was he ever a Cpl in 4RAR
And I can assure you Zunt Morrison has never uttered any such words of praise ref Donny Tate.
 
Having spoken with Jimmy Riddle at 4RAR birthday Holsworthy,,I can say without fear of contradiction that Jimmy Riddle would never had said those words in ref to Donny Tate.
 
In both cases he is simply lying to further embelish his story..
 
You may reprint/use this info if you wish to..
 
I am willing to try to answer any queries ref Don's service with 4RAR you may have.
 
Well done
All the best
xxxx xxxxx
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« Reply #197 on: Saturday26September2009 »

Fergus admin agrees with your request for corroborating information. D371 we will remove your post and Shadows if no sustainable evidence is produced within 24 hours.
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« Reply #196 on: Thursday24September2009 »

Terrier Tate has awoken from his sleazy slumber and is off and running again. Gee this bloke is a glutton for punishment. Each time he opens his mouth two things happen. He is shot down in flames and he makes a bigger idiot of himself. It must be a mental problem somewhere for poor Don. If he keeps doing the same thing all the time he will get the same results. But with his limited cranial capacity and stunted emotional state this escapes Don Tate.

As you have seen demented Don has thrown a torrent of threats and nonsense at a bloke called Peter Edwards, whoever he might be. While we think of it, how in the hell can Edwards expose the owners of AVM? Edwards is unknown to us and has no say in how AVM operates. Oh, dear, we forgot, the mad galahs will say this is a cover up by us . Duh. Anyway Don and co look all you like, guess all you like and accuse all you like Edwards is not an owner of AVM and never will be.

Tate never changes. How many people he has  threatened with legal action we don’t know by now. We do know his threats of courtly discipline are not made just against Veterans but against anybody anywhere who dares to call it as it is and call him as he is. Ask his local council. He’s the typical sociopath. Look it up on Google. His local Police reckon he is an idiot, the Veteran community reckon he’s an idiot, the media, except those lied to by Murdoch Books, reckon he’s an idiot and most if not all Federal politicians reckon he’s an idiot. But on he stumbles, babbling and frothing at the mouth, desperately trying to prove his worth and prove he was something he never was.

Now it sticks out like the proverbial that Tate has gone to great length to reply to an email supposedly sent by a Peter Edwards.

Do you all remember the two emails Ted Colmer sent out exposing Tate and saying Tate was not part of the Thua Tich ambush. Remember Ted Colmer and Tate were at one time like peas in a pod, but to his credit Ted Colmer came out and spoke some truth. Colmer was at the ambush which can be proven.

We challenge Tate to reply to Ted Colmers emails, blow by blow like he has with Edwards, and rebut what Ted Colmer has said and threaten Ted Colmer with legal action. Come on donny. Ted has said you are lying. Now if Ted Colmer is lying then you have him by the short and curlies. You can easily take him to Court for defamation. You boast you have the money to do this with others, so do it with Ted Colmer. If Ted Colmer is telling the truth then you, Don, don’t have a leg to stand on and you Don are the liar we say you are.

To recap this is what Ted Colmer had to say on 10 August 2009

G’day Allen,

What a greedy self consuming gorging MONSTER we’ve allowed to incessantly dupe us, who is certainly not qualified to comment on matters he didn’t witness, or take part in.

Don Tate was constructively part of this platoon but never left the wire for Thua Tich or en route: 328 ambush to Xuyen Moc.


Tate the Veteran community knows you are a wannabe and liar, politicians know you are a wannabe and liar, Ex service organizations know you are a wannabe and liar, most of the media know you are a wannabe and liar,the Australian War Memorial knows you are a wannabe and liar and we know  you are a wannabe and liar.

We know you won’t pack your bags up because people like you, sick in mind and emotion, keep on keeping on because they have lost touch with reality. That won’t stop us unmasking you at every turn and we will do it using your own words and behaviour as our ammunition.

What a sorry sorry person you are.
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« Reply #195 on: Thursday24September2009 »

It would be great if he was as thorough about dealing with Ted Colmer's letter but.......................

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« Reply #194 on: Wednesday23September2009 »

Tate mouths off again.....

From: Donald Tate
To:  Allen Petersen
Cc: Peter Edwards
Sent: Wednesday, 23 September 2009 8:29 AM
Subject: The legal consequences of Vicious Emails (Peter Edwards)

           

When a person slings off an ill-considered email, like 'trooper' Peter Edwards did some time ago, and allows it to be spread across the internet, he needs to be very careful of what he says. Why? Because there IS a point at which lines are crossed. And the thing is, I don’t know Edwards, and he has never met me.
      

Now, initiating civil action is a costly and energy-sapping enterprise, and because of that, most men who cop hate mail like Edwards’, suffer in silence. Not me.            

I’ve been busy with the book these last few months, but was considerably distressed with Edwards’ letter when it hit the airwaves and it has affected me adversely for all these months. This week, I had the opportunity of seeking legal advice about it.
           

Let’s just say, those advisors were salivating at the prospect of taking Edwards on. It’s my call.
           

Because Edwards’ letter was distributed widely, I am taking this opportunity of commenting on key aspects of it, prior to initiating that legal action, so that those who read it, will understand why it caused me so much discomfort- and why I will be pursuing him. Hopefully, in that process, he’ll be forced to reveal the names of the cowards who operate the AVM web site. Perhaps they’ll contribute to his legal costs.            

I have placed Edwards’ letter below. It is in black. MY comments are in maroon at various points within the letter.            

Now, because I’m not completely malicious, and because he is a veteran of the war (I assume) I am going to give Peter Edwards an opportunity to make amends. I’d suggest he seek legal advice as to how to go about that - and he now has until 5pm on Friday the 25th September to do so.
           

 THE EDWARDS’ LETTER

 

On Thu, 16/4/09, Pete Edwards <cavtrooper66> wrote:


From: Pete Edwards
Subject: Is this true ?
To: warvet_69@yahoo.com
Received: Thursday, 16 April, 2009, 12:05 AM

Let’s Have a Good Look at Don Tate.

In the cold heart of day let’s have a good look at Tate, the undecorated war hero, who abuses all and sundry about their service in Vietnam and the consequences that followed.

(Actually, I don’t abuse anyone. I stand my ground, and defend myself against paedophiles, piss-ants, cowards, quislings, and cat murderers who attack me, that’s all. There’s a lot of them around.)   

For he is, by his own claims, a “super soldier”, better than any SAS patrol member, better than any Jnr or Snr NCO, better than any officer who served in Vietnam.

(Actually, I have never claimed to be better than anybody else. In fact, in “The War Within” I am self-deprecating to a fault, consciously detailing my flaws, failures, and mistakes- more so than most other man would ever dare to do! As for being better than SAS- well actually, in my book, in the same self-deprecating vein, I state clearly that “they had pretty high standards and I’d have been hard-pressed to meet any of them.” p. 212)
 

But with no military qualifications! He attended no courses apart from Recruit and Corps Training, but in his warped mind, he was still better than SAS.
 

(Actually, I did a 10-week course in Colloquial Vietnamese along with Pte Ennio Tavani, finishing at the top of the class, and in Vietnam, was used by my platoon as an interpreter. I don’t know how many SAS blokes learned colloquial Vietnamese, and I know that there weren’t many ordinary infantrymen who completed that Course, either.)
 

He and the  other supernumeraries posted to HQ 1 ATF, were nothing more than replacements waiting to go to the newly arrived Battalions, as and when needed.

After Tate arrived in-country he served with 4RAR for some 6 months, which is good bush time.

 
(Actually, I did about 4 months with 10 Platoon, 4RAR- not 6 months, but yes, it was ALL in the bush.)
 

You can learn a lot in that 6 months! Especially unnatural changes to the vegetation in which you are working which may indicate an enemy presence.

As any Infantry soldier would agree with, regardless of his posting, once you became aware of these unnatural sightings, the hair on the back of his neck would stand up and his heart would start to pump, he knew that the enemy were very close. He would instantly stop the patrol from going any further and he would call the Pl Comd up and show and explain the changes in vegetation and explain what they meant.


(Actually, I haven’t met many other infantrymen who’d agree that their “hairs would stand up” and whose “hearts would start to pump” when they saw “changes in vegetation”. Most blokes I served with were alive all the time with their hearts pumping- until they were killed. And frankly, since Edwards was a cavalryman of sorts, he wouldn’t have ANY ideas about anything to do with infantry tactics.) 


That is what a normal Infantry soldier would do and his comments would not be questioned.


(Actually, there was many a time when “normal” soldiers “comments” were questioned- but not necessarily verbally. Section-commanders didn’t necessarily agree with scouts; sergeants with corporals; officers with sergeants; company commanders with platoon commanders. What’s more, infantrymen were prone to using hand signals to communicate if the situation was tense.)


“Stumbles” was not a very good soldier as will be confirmed by some of his own statements a bit further down and as we go further it will become evident of how, he utterly failed 7Pl C Coy 9RAR and let them walk into an ambush which he knew was close.


(Actually, I didn’t fail 7 Pl “C” Coy in any respect. I wasn’t the scout of the first section; nor did I have any leadership role in the platoon. Nor did I have any say whatsoever in how far we walked, or where- that was the platoon commander’s job. I was the scout of the SECOND section that walked into that ambush.)


A “Stumbles” quote from his book:

“For over two hours we had struggled our way up the side of a muddy hill, and in closing darkness and with a thunderstorm raging around us, the Viet Cong sprung their ambush.

To this day, the horror of that ambush will wake me at night. Sometimes I wake with a sense of guilt, perhaps not deserved, because I feel I had had enough experience in 4RAR to have realised we were walking into a trap. Sometimes I still see leaves tied together, and tree markings, and exposed fire lanes, and wake up in a sweat wondering why I hadn't said something, why I hadn’t reacted quicker.

At the same time, we were all dog tired. Switched off. Careless.

And suddenly, with an unbelievable roar, the enemy machine guns opened up on us from the front and side. The first section of 7 Platoon were cut to ribbons”. (emphasis added).


(Actually, he implies that these words are from “The War Within”. They aren’t.)


Tate wasn’t switched off – he saw the tell tale signs – and shut up!

Careless! Negligent! Yes, as guilty as hell, Tate knew they were close and shut up and by his inaction 7 Pl were decimated!

(Actually, as the ‘new boy’ in the platoon- having only been with that lot for a few weeks, and in the middle section of the platoon, I had no responsibility for anything whatsoever, other than watching the sides of the track. And 7 PL wasn’t “decimated”. We had one killed, and nine wounded, which left at least half the platoon still standing. As for my “inaction”- well, actually, I ran forward into the killing field, along with John Walker and Greg Salmon on orders, to relieve that first section, and did so under fire, and without question or hesitation. Make of that what you will.)


The Bn soon found out about Tate’s stuff up, big time as it was, the word went out quickly. Is it any wonder that his peers did not want his name included in the Nominal Role of the Bn?

(My “peers” had no say in who went into the “Nominal Roll” of the 9th Battalion. That was the job of ordinance clerks, and an officer. They were negligent in not completing the paperwork, that’s all. I mean, they only had 5 weeks to do it, and didn’t manage to do so. My being left off the Roll was due to official papers being thrown overboard from HMAS Sydney on the battalion’s way home. It was done by a Private charged with looking after them. I have met him since, and he confirmed how and why it was done.)


So Tate comes home, hating the world, and has done so ever since.

(Actually, I don’t hate everyone. Just fools, maggots, and stooges like Peter Edwards.)


It is not the world that he hates, it is himself. By his own statements he was a gutless individual before the Army, by allowing 7Pl to walk into an enemy bunker system when he knew they were close, more of a gutless and cowards act.

 
(Actually, I say again- I ran into that killing field while the battle raged, when others from my platoon didn’t. A man who is “gutless’ and a “coward” doesn’t do that. He stays where he is, and lets others do the dirty work. I’ll let my platoon commander, Lt Bruce Osborn have a say here:   

“I am happy to advise anybody who asks me that Edward’s description of your actions on the 19th of July are entirely without truth and that your conduct and actions were exemplary – and that you can quote me in that regard to whoever you like. Bruce”

 
And the section-commander of that first section into that ambush, Cpl Andy Ochiltree (who was awarded an MM for his actions on the night) also has an opinion which he sent directly to Edwards:

 
“I was the section commander that led C Coy into the bunker complex on 19 July 69. Fully aware of what we were about to encounter. Without further detail I suggest you retreat into your ill-informed hole, retract your comments and apologise to Don Tate. You are  making disparaging remarks about a person and a situation you know absolutely nothing about. I suggest that you do as I suggest and retract and apologise to Don Tate. What he has written (in “The War Within”) is true and for you to go on and blame him in anyway for what happened in that bunker system is appalling to put it very mildly. You, I will repeat, have absolutely no knowledge of the situation or how, we who were wounded, were not only deserted by our own countrymen when denied casevac ( thank God for the Yanks) but the system as a whole”.



Ever since he has sought sympathy, from anyone and everyone! Read his bleating of being WIA!

 
(Actually, I’ve never sought “sympathy from anyone- just understanding of what it was like to be 19 and hospitalised for more than two years, and being left permanently disabled. As for “bleating”- well, I suppose an uneducated fool could call describing the manner you were wounded as “bleating”, but describing how a bullet shatters an entire hip joint is difficult to do in words. I assume Edwards was never physically wounded himself, and therefore has no appreciation of such a matter. In fact, since only about 4% of men were actually physically wounded in the war, most men don't.)

How better to remove the guilt from his inactions and being a prime cause of the casualties inflicted on 7Pl C Coy 9RAR? I’ll make myself a hero! – everyone will agree and I will feel good about myself!

 
(Actually, what happened in that ambush was none of my fault, and I have never made myself out to be a hero. Just did what was expected of me, is all. Though I was awarded a Bravery Award once by the NSW Dept of Education- but that’s another story that will be recounted for the Court in due course.)

So, D&E platoon comes up many years later and with enough fabricated gloss and magic, Tate and his supernumeraries at HQ 1ATF, Tate invents them all as super soldiers and hero’s, they swallow it up, and in their eyes Tate is a hero. What he had always wanted to be! A hero!

The facts don’t matter to him, the dream does!


(Actually, it wasn’t a dream at al. It was the Army History Unit that came to its own conclusions about the existence and operations of the 2nd D&E Platoon, based on critical evidence placed before them. The Hon Dr Mike Kelly MP- a former lawyer and army officer himself, concurred, but only after an exhaustive analysis. Politicians don’t act in haste, nor without irrefutable evidence of the matter.)


So he writes very glamorous descriptions about their supposed activities making the Province safe, according to him, the SAS or the Infantry Bn’s couldn’t but Tate and his cohorts did. Wow!


(Actually, the accounts were written by Captain Tom Arrowsmith and Cpl Jim Riddle. I provide an overview in “The War Within”- and to great effect, I must say! And in no place did anyone make any claims that the actions of that platoon were any more than what it was- although Brigadier Pearson writes: "the 2nd D&E Platoon did conduct themselves with distinction". And the “supposed activities” have been validated in official Army Narratives.)


Tate has blisteringly bagged the SAS patrols due to his superior knowledge of how an Army works, despite the SAS having patrols of between 5 and 10 men. That’s bugger all when bullets start flying and they have to get out on a “hot” extraction. They were always going to be outnumbered!

 
(Actually, I make no claims about the SAS, whatsoever. The only references to the SAS we used in the 2nd D&E Platoon matter were used by Brigadier Pearson in a personal letter to me, and in a letter from another senior officer, sent to the AWM. I know nothing about how SAS worked- just like Edwards himself.)


But Tate basically describes them as being cowards because the small patrols didn’t stand and fight! If I led a small patrol of that size, I’d be out of there too, and so would every other patrol commander when contacted by a numerically superior force.


(Actually, I have never referred to the SAS unit as cowards- just one individual, a former member of that illustrious unit by the name of Barry Hollitt. He conducted a whispering campaign against me in WA when I was speaking at Libraries there, but didn’t have the guts to meet me face to face. He is another stooge of the AVM, like Edwards, and is currently under investigation by senior sources within the WA Police Service for breaches of the Telecommunications Act. And as for bolting when your force was outnumbered as “every other patrol commander” would do- I’ll let the blokes from Nui Nhe, Coral, Balmoral, and Long Tan have an opinion on that strategy. I think infantry blokes will have a different opinion to that of a cavalryman like Edwards.)


This is all from a Pte soldier whom his peers do not have very much to say about his abilities at all.


(Actually, my “peers” have a good opinion of me, Edwards. I’ll let them speak for themselves:
 

-     “your conduct and actions were exemplary” (Lt Bruce Osborn, platoon commander of 7PL, “C” Coy 9RAR in the ambush of July 19th 1969)

-     “You're a brave conscientious man Don…” (Zunt Morrison, section-commander, 10 Pl “D” Coy 4RAR)

-     “I so well recall the most cheerful bloke in Vietnam. Mate you were a life saving diamond.” (Cpl Jim Riddle, platoon commander, 2nd D&E Platoon)

-     “I remember Don as a tall, blonde, fit, humorous and conscientious soldier.” (Pte Des Blazely, member of the

     2nd D&E Platoon)

 

He’s a hero! Another quote from his book:

“On the day I was wounded I should have been in Bangkok on R and R. But a sense of duty to 'C' Coy who were a little undermanned at the time, and knowing contact with the enemy was imminent, meant I volunteered to stay in the field instead. In retrospect, perhaps it was foolish decision, but a patriotic youth can be forgiven such foolishness.”

(Emphasis added)


(Actually, those words aren’t from “The War Within” either- but they’re accurate anyway.)


I’ll bet everyone in 7Pl C Coy wished to Christ he had have been in Bangkok, for very obvious reasons. He states “Contact was imminent” and he went to water!

(Actually, I never “went to water” at all. I was the first of three men who ran into that killing field, under fire, and while two of us were wounded, the other was awarded a Military Medal for doing exactly the same thing- but avoided being shot.)


Tate will never be a hero in anyone’s eye’s, only his own! Simply because he is not and has never been anything than a bumbling and stumbling very inexperienced soldier who did not do his job.


(Actually, considering I was still serving as a rifleman when I was wounded- and serving with an infantry battalion still after seven and a half months into my tour, I MUST have been doing my job- otherwise I’d have been filling jerry cans with water or dixie-bashing or some such thing, back in base.)


Tate also complains that when 9RAR returned to Brisbane, they did not pay him a visit in hospital.

Tate’s quote:


“I never got a visit from anyone in 9RAR when they came home, even though they returned to my home town- Brisbane. Hadn't really got to know anyone in my three weeks with them, and I guess I was forgotten by the time they’d finished their tour.” (emphasis added).

I would say that 9RAR had very good reasons not to pay a visit, and Mr Tate your decision not to give any warning to 7Pl has never been forgotten. You live in infamy!
 

(Actually, the men from 9RAR, including its former CO- Brigadier “Alby’ Morrison, and the Company OC, Major Laurie Lewis, have all made me welcome. NO blame for what happened on the 19th July has ever been attributed to me by any man from that platoon, or that company.)

 
That’s all folks. See why my advisors are grinning.

Over to you, Edwards.


 Don Tate

author, "The War Within" (Murdoch Books)
 "..an amazing book...a remarkable read.."     
           - Richard Aedy, ABC Radio National
« Last Edit: Thursday24September2009 by Cassius » Logged
dodger39
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« Reply #193 on: Thursday13August2009 »

From: xxxxx
To: Austvetmatters
Cc: xxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: WHAT'S YOUR OPINION ? **POSTS


Hi,

Have made a few comments (in red) below in response to Tate's missive. Place it on the forum if you so desire. You may also publish the attachment to my email to you dated 29 Jul 09 concerning my response to Tate on the same issue.

xxxxxx


 Analysing who was who in those 2" x 2" photos as we first saw them left us all scratching our heads- and it was a process that eventually took months. I showed one photo of two men dragging a body to my family- and every single one of them would swear it was me. I only knew it wasn't because that bloke had a strange shirt on.

Ah! Stumbles has done some very basic imagery interpretation. In any event what were two men doing dragging a body to his family? Appears his family was in Vietnam. Is this in his book?

I think what he meant was that he showed a photo to his family, the photo being of a man dragging a body. It seems all his family say it's him but he says it's not (probably because it doesn't suit his story) due to the fact the man was wearing a "strange shirt". Assuming the bloke  in the photo was a digger, then he would have been wearing a jungle green shirt like the rest of the diggers, so how could it be a strange shirt. They all looked the same to me irrespective of who was wearing it.

 
 
« Last Edit: Thursday13August2009 by dodger39 » Logged
Ethelred
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« Reply #192 on: Thursday13August2009 »

Terry O'Farrell, Graham Brammer, Mick Malone, Barrie Crowley, Brian Hennessy.

All OR's, all have written published books, as well as the others listed below by CD.

Typical Tate guff about "only officers" writing books.. He seems to have a deep seated hatred of commissioned officers and never misses a chance to call their integrity and professionalism into question.

Readers should note that Terry O’Farrell and Mick Malone enlisted as recruits in the normal process and were private Soldiers. However they later attained Commissioned rank. Just for the record readers.
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Nuidat68
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« Reply #191 on: Thursday13August2009 »

Hopefully you will be able to add me to that NCO,s who have wrote a book on vietnam & its aftermath as im hoping to write a book on how we got the Welcome home parade in Sydney and who was involved and who wasnt ( Government & some VVA NSW HQ officers ) . As one of the diggers who traveled to Chicago for there big viet vets welcome home in june of 86 and help set up the australian parade commitee im hoping it will be a better read than "the war within".
If i didnt think i could give other vets hope then i wouldnt even pick up a pen or think about writting this book. The letters recived from next of kin regarding going to Chicago re- the Ray Martin "Midday Show" would bring a tear to your eyes and there support for what we were doing was inspiring to us and the late Johnny "JW" Wilson would never have been able to come with us to Chicago  in 86 if it wasnt for there support. It wont be about me going to Kindergarden and being raped by my school teacher and every other girl who looked my way those who want that stuff will have to go to that other book. Just a thought!! But Then maybe I will write it, who knows.
Nui-Dat68
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Zion
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« Reply #190 on: Wednesday12August2009 »

From: xxxxx
To: Austvetmatters
Cc: xxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: WHAT'S YOUR OPINION ? **POSTS


Hi,

Have made a few comments (in red) below in response to Tate's missive. Place it on the forum if you so desire. You may also publish the attachment to my email to you dated 29 Jul 09 concerning my response to Tate on the same issue.

xxxxxx


Allen Petersen wrote:
From: Donald Tate
To: Allen Petersen
Sent: Monday, 27 July 2009 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: WHAT'S YOUR OPINION ? **POSTS


Re "Doctored photos" etc..

Again....a simple response.......do these fools like xxxxxx etc etc really believe that ANY veteran could "doctor" a photo and fool the generals in the ADF, or the historians at the AWM? 

With the availability of many photographic editing software programmes any "fool", as Tate so succinctly puts it in his usual inimitable and derogative manner, has the ability to change/doctor any photograph. But then it is clearly understood completely if Stumbles was unaware of such programmes but then from his own description about "fools" he would have intimate knowledge  of these programmes. The ability to alter/change,doctor photographs has existed as long as photographs have been around.

Dear me! Tate has had a change of heart from his previous tirades about incompetent and lying officers in general and, in particular, very senior officers!!



xxxxxxxx apparently worked in the Intelligence Corps- I'd say he would've been perfect for it. I can imagine him in Vietnam...a white-faced, slope-shouldered weakling like the dickhead I remember in triage at hospital bothering the wounded blokes with stupid questions like: "What unit did you hit? and What was the size of their force? And what weapons were they using?" I still remember them walking around among the wounded blokes asking dumb things like that as if we knew the answers.

Tate fails, deliberately or otherwise, to understand or indeed appreciate the role of intelligence - his ignorance is telling. No such questioning would have occurred if the wounded soldier was unable to cope with the process. At the level he is driveling about, such questioning would have been conducted, most probably, by the Bn Int Section who are trained to do so. But then it is perfectly understandable as Stumbles was, or perhaps is, in a permanent sublime state of ignorance and hence does not know the organisation of an Aust Inf Bn. He is totally unaware that these personnel from the Section including the Intelligence officer, (with rare exception), are in fact infantry. Yes Tate, members of your own Corps - not Int Corps personnel. His demonstrated knowledge of an inf bn is woefully limited and again he has slighted his comrades, ie, if in fact they were his comrades. Perhaps Mr Tate couldn't care less whether the enemy was armed with slingshots or blowpipes but his fellow soldiers would indeed be MOST interested in the enemy's weaponry, organisation and capability.

Analysing who was who in those 2" x 2" photos as we first saw them left us all scratching our heads- and it was a process that eventually took months. I showed one photo of two men dragging a body to my family- and every single one of them would swear it was me. I only knew it wasn't because that bloke had a strange shirt on.

Ah! Stumbles has done some very basic imagery interpretation. In any event what were two men doing dragging a body to his family? Appears his family was in Vietnam. Is this in his book?

A question xxxx- where was the Intelligence Corps all the while that "non-existent" D&E Platoons were being created at a whim and utilised without Task Force HQ necessarily knowing where and when? I spoke with a section-commander of 5RAR on my travels who told me his platoon almost wiped out a D&E Platoon in a river on one occasion, because as far as HQ Coy was concerned, there were no Australians in that area. Only a third call to HQ confirmed who and what that unit was.

Tate has again confirmed his abysmal ignorance concerning the responsibilities and roles of intelligence. Int staff have no responsibility whatsoever in the direction or command over friendly forces. The deployment of own forces and their command and control rests totally with the operations staff. Similarly the location of friendly forces is again a matter for the designated commander regardless of what level the command happens to be. If friendly forces clash look to whoever was in command of that particular deployment. The call you mentioned would have been made to the force HQ, NOT to the Int staff. Might have been that illusive 2D&E Pl lurking about the bush conducting their own operations unknown to everybody!


* Mr_Tate_Attachment.doc (41 KB - downloaded 461 times.)
« Last Edit: Wednesday12August2009 by Cassius » Logged

krt1.
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« Reply #189 on: Tuesday11August2009 »

Tate, should get a manager and stop handling him self.  He is making a botch of it. What a drongo that idiot is. The only War with In, is in his feeble brain, the two sections of egg shell are fighting each other!
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« Reply #188 on: Tuesday11August2009 »

Thanks fella's for the author update listing.
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PQ
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« Reply #187 on: Monday10August2009 »

Terry O'Farrell, Graham Brammer, Mick Malone, Barrie Crowley, Brian Hennessy.

All OR's, all have written published books, as well as the others listed below by CD.

Typical Tate guff about "only officers" writing books.. He seems to have a deep seated hatred of commissioned officers and never misses a chance to call their integrity and professionalism into question.



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gunnerb
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« Reply #186 on: Monday10August2009 »

Barry Heard, Lance-Corporal: http://www.freewebs.com/welldonethosemen/authorsbackground.htm
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CD
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« Reply #185 on: Monday10August2009 »

Harking back to the Tate update dated 11 Mar 09...........

Don Tate, has written an email to Minister Griffin extolling his achievements.

In this letter he just couldn’t resist a bit more about his conspiracy theories. This is what he said (the full email is shown below)
 
Then, I had the temerity to write a book-The War Within - and on top of everything else, this really got the veteran world upset. Apparently, only officers have that right- so the attacks have been relentless. The strange thing is- my book is not all about Vietnam. It’s about a bloke who comes from a poor background and does the best he can to rise above it. Veterans across the country have loved it- men and women, but that simply provoked even more jealousy.
 
There are officers who believe that writing is their domain, and there are some ordinary veterans who think that I seek to rise above them in doing so. Neither is true. It’s just my story, as best as I could write it.
                       
All I can suggest- is that there are some very powerful folk out there with much to be afraid of. I can tell you this- during our investigations, we uncovered many anomalies with respect to our military history, and information that could savage the careers of many important men- but chose not to make it public because it served no common good.
           
However, it is all firmly recorded, and locked away.”

NOTE: Tate has stated that "Apparently, only officers have that right-" to write books (on Viet Nam).  I decided to have a look at the number of non-officers who have written quality books on the subject.  Not being an educated History teacher it didn't take me too long to find out that the following "OR's" have indeed written very good books, they are:
Lex McAulay, Michael English, Bob buick, Neville Modystack,, Terry Burstall, Peter Haran, Robert Kearney, Wayne Brown, Vic Pennington, Paul anderson, Gary Brooker, Martin Cameron and Greg Smith.  If I have missed any please let me know fella's.

So, bang goes Tates statement that only Officers are allowed to write books.
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gunnerb
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« Reply #184 on: Monday10August2009 »

Thanks for the detailed explanation, Samsung. I accept what you're saying, although the general public might still view forum discussion, as I did, as AVM website material.

I'll keep reading and drinking coffee... and probably a few other things!

Cheers  Smiley
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Ethelred
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« Reply #183 on: Monday10August2009 »

Gnome a very eloquent tongue. Well put.

We need to understand this Forum is not the AVM website---a forum is not a website. This is an important matter which we all need to understand. AVM has presented a history of the behaviour and military service of the main galah characters on its website www.austvetmatters.net The service histories have been obviously legally obtained from the NAA, and are therefore genuine documents which the mad galahs themselves will use to verify their own service.

Therefore it's important to be clear that the AVM website is the place to find the official AVM opinion and sourced information.

This forum is a place open to all who register to post their opinions and information. AVM makes it clear that this forum does not necessarily reflect their opinion.

The mgs can't have it both ways. On the one hand they castigate AVM for providing official service histories and other official documents but on the other hand the mgs use official documents to spin their own versions of reality and history.

Personally I don't care if Tate or anybody else writes a hundred books. That is of no interest to me. What concerns me is the behaviour of Tate and the mad galahs as they have roamed around the internet, attacking and cajoling, defaming and abusing, intimidating and threatening as they have labelled all sorts of decent people as paedophiles, murderers, drug runners and liars and in the meantime contacted the families of some members to intimidate them. What also concerns me are the facts as presented by Tate in his book regarding the actions of HQ 1ATF during his time posted to that HQ. He was not posted to D&E Platoon, he was posted to the HQ and then allocated at the Commanders behest. Mowgli has also proven much about events near and at Thua Tich and there is no doubt in my mind Tate was never at the ambush main area on the night of the ambush at Thua Tich. Mowglie has used official documents to underpin his thesis. We all know too that there are inaccuracies with military documents because of the pressures and conditions they are compiled under but in the main these documents are as close to the truth as we will ever get. To state there has been widespread official corruption by the Australian Military in the compilation of it's own history is utter nonsense.

I served in the Regular Army for years and I know for sure the Military was not as pure as the driven snow, which means some members were incompetent fools who should never have donned a uniform. However the great majority of members I served with were decent human beings who did their best and were not engaged in anything untoward. The mad galahs would have us all believe that fraud, corruption, incompetence and stupidity were endemic, which was and is simply untrue.

As imperfect as the ADF was and is it ranks among the best military forces in the world and I hope it continues to stand tall.

I also will not see the memory of my fallen mate besmirched by the mad galahs who were indeed ineffectual misfits and their service histories prove this .
« Last Edit: Monday10August2009 by Samsung » Logged
gunnerb
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« Reply #182 on: Monday10August2009 »

Thanks Shadow. While I still have much reading to do over many cups of coffee, I appreciate the purpose of the website and am very much in favour of protecting the integrity of the Australian Military and those who have gone into battle and risked their lives for our nation. I don't believe, though, that our reputation should be defended at any cost, e.g. the sacrifice of truth and the concealment of unsavoury pieces of history.
As I said earlier, I've read Don Tate's book, was bored stiff with Part 1 and wondered why anyone would want to advertise, even glory in, such an ignominious upbringing. In saying that, I'm not denouncing Tate for the hand that fate dealt him. However, I'm already on antidepressants and Part 1 of The War Within didn't help (but that's a personal problem). Part 3 was also dispensable, as one should take descriptions of people's sexual exploits with a grain of salt.
It was Part 2, which appears to have been written with much non-Tate-like humility, which sent my sensibilities into a spin, particularly the description of the Thua Tich atrocity. I wondered, of course, whether this could really occur in an Australian unit, but I realise that anything can happen in the heat of battle, things that we'd prefer to put behind us once the war is over, but which remain nevertheless unsavoury pieces of our military history. So I gave Tate the benefit of the doubt on that one and eventually had grapevine confirmation of the event from someone (now deceased) who was there. I don't know all of the details, of course, and it appears from Tate's book that he's pretty vague on them also.
I reckon, though, that we should admit that not all who have led our military men and women and have been honoured for their service are 'diligent men of infinite integrity' as someone put it. The Kokoda troops might be willing to testify to that and I've been personal witness to some pretty duplicitous dealings by these 'diligent men of infinite integrity'.
I guess what I'm getting at is that we live in an imperfect world, but that doesn't give us the right to don our KKK hoods and hurl grenades at those with whom we have issues, even serious issues. I don't believe that the abusive language used in the slanging matches on the AVM website (reminiscent of a schoolboy brawl) enhances the public image of the Australian Digger.
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Fergus Fairfax
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« Reply #181 on: Monday10August2009 »

Gnome to do your homework I suggest you take your time and read all here www.austvetmatters.net

This mad galah mob have been rampaging around the place with a free licence for 3 years until AVM came along and nobody else had the courage or commitment to call them out and expose them. Naturally the mgs hate AVM.

I have been following AVM since day one and you will notice that AVM never initiate any bile, they just post the mg latest and sometimes comment on it.

I see much more from the mad galahs because I am on lists their drivel goes to and most of it is let through to the keeper by AVM.

Anyway the AVM website itself [ this is just their forum where anybody can have a say ] is the place for you to do your homewrok, but get a big cuppa and take plenty of time.
« Last Edit: Monday10August2009 by Shadow » Logged
gunnerb
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« Reply #180 on: Sunday09August2009 »

I'm very new to the AVM site and relatively ignorant of most of the issues, although I have read The War Within and am aware of some of the personalities whose names are regularly tossed around, some being listed for demolition. I perceive that the forum could be a very useful source of information, but what I've viewed so far is a relentless slanging match with a constant stream of vitriol. I'd like to remain in touch with the site, as I'm on quite a steep learning curve. However, while I acknowledge that anonymous abuse is simple and safe to issue, it's not constructive, informative or useful to anyone.
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CD
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« Reply #179 on: Sunday09August2009 »

The 'dog' is nothing more than a vexatious woundee veteran who does not have the wherewithall above his shoulders to make a cognizant resolution.
QED: He is a dumb shit.
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Cavalry
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« Reply #178 on: Sunday09August2009 »

Is it just me but it seems like Tate is repetitive on all his crying in his emails. What a drongo.

Those names he rattled of as not having a go at the moratorium marchers I believe all but two were regs and at the time Tate was physically weakened and beating up healthy 20 year olds, would have been in uniform. I know three served for 20 years and would have better things to do that fighting long haired protesters.
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Savage1
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« Reply #177 on: Sunday09August2009 »

Oh Donny you are my "hero" - why am I shaking in my boots?
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Zion
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« Reply #176 on: Sunday09August2009 »

Ohhh woe is me Sad I am so sad, so lonely, so misunderstood and nobody will treat me as a lone hero  Huh  What have I done to upset you all  Huh  I just want you all to bow and scrape to me and treat me as I should be treated then I will sleep soundly. Nobody but nobody has had it as hard as me  Cry  .....I betcha. Just ask me about all I've had to go through. Oh dear it's been terrible, just terrible.
Donny Tate  Kiss

From: xxxxxx
To: admin@austvetmatters.net
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 6:57 PM
Subject: Fw: COWARDS AT AVM WEBSITE...



From: Allen Petersen
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Cc: Keith Tennent ; AVM
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 6:43 PM
Subject: COWARDS AT AVM WEBSITE...


From: Donald Tate
Date: 8/08/2009 8:16:21 AM
Subject: To the cowards at the AVM website

In 1970, granted day leave on crutches with an open, infected wound in my hip- half the size of a football- physically weakened by a year's hospitalisation that had already involved five months in traction, I tackled the ranks of moratorium marchers protesting at Australia's involvement in the war. I defended those men still in Vietnam fighting and dying for what they thought was a noble cause. I thought someone has to stand up for them; someone had to be man enough to point out that men were spilling blood on that Asian battleground on behalf of this country.

Yes, I got knocked down a few times, and got back up again, and took to them again and again, with crutches and fists. Funny thing was, though, a long time afterwards when I was back in hospital, sicker and sorrier, and reflecting on that particular day, I realised that I didn't see any of my fellow veterans out there doing the same thing. No Buicks. No Tennants. No Prices or Averys. No Hollitts or Lyons. None of that crowd. Like most others, I guess, they stayed in the background, stayed where it was safe and quiet. Didn't have the physical or moral courage to stand up for their 'mates' back in the war still doing the hard yards.

Well I DID. And I still will- and if I hadn't had the courage to take on the establishment for all these years, the 2nd D&E Platoon would still be missing from the military history of this country. And I didn't do it anonymously, but with a couple of others who also had the guts to stand against the tirade of abuse and vilification we copped from the Buicks of this world. Now of course,THEY are the heroes, and weak-minded veterans don't see them for the moronic cowards that they are. They seek to destroy my character and that of any other man who has the guts to voice an opinion.

A quick look at the hate list put out by the AVM reveals that everyone on that list has the balls to have a say, have an opinion, have the guts to put a case and argue it, while the cowards at the AVM website hide behind their hands like schoolgirls, giggling and passing around notes to each other. For Christ's sake- WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR MANHOOD, you perverts? No wonder too few men are reluctant to speak their mind on the internet- you become a target as soon as you do, and especially so if you criticise any aspect of the military or those 'leaders' who used to ride roughshod over us.

Why not tackle the big issues- like how did Bob Buick manage to score that LS&GC Medal and wear it undetected for almost two decades? Like how Buick can boast to the veteran community that his attacks against his fellow veterans has "the support of the highest levels of the military and the government."? And how is it that he could murder unarmed, enemy soldiers the day after a battle- and still be regarded as worthy of a medal, let alone the respect of fellow veterans? Why not tackle the continuing issue of erroneous military records that has a man of the stature of General Peter Cosgrove being a platoon commander of a D&E Platoon in Vung Tau at the same time as he's winning a Military Cross with 9RAR?

Surely it should trouble every veteran that a man of his standing has bastardised service records. Or perhaps ask why General Steve Gower felt the need to write to me via Keith Tennant recently? Why didn't he write to me directly, instead of through third parties- and why make misleading comments about the original films they were so rapt to get back in 1996? I'll tell you this, I don't know what the other blokes on your list are going to do, but I'll re-double my efforts to highlight the falsification of war records and other matters. If you think I did all right on the media front last year, wait till you see what's in the pipeline. You ain't seen nothing yet.

Don Tate author, "The War Within" ·       

“The War Within”is a complex, virtuoso analysis of one man’s world- an utterly compelling and profoundly unsettling mosaic. On the one hand, it is an acidic dissection of the role environment and family have in developing a person’s character, and on the other, it is a sauntering chronicle of social analysis and injustice. One is almost left breathless”-                   L. Ollsen, Freelance Reviewer
« Last Edit: Sunday09August2009 by Cassius » Logged

Zion
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« Reply #175 on: Wednesday29July2009 »

From: xxxxx
To: admin@austvetmatters.net
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 5:08 PM
Subject: Don Tate

Hi,
You will no doubt have heard of the recent machinations of “Stumbles” Tate on a recent TV news programme wherein he stated he had no choice but to publicly disclose atrocities by Australian troops in the aftermath of Thua Tich. To date all Tate’s claims and allegations have convincingly been proven to be totally false and yet he continues to utter insulting claims as well as abuse on those who dispute his fairy tales. In view of this it is remarkable that he continues to gain exposure thus peddling his lies.

I wonder if DVA has taken any action arising from Tate’s campaign to sell his book. He is obviously employed, albeit self employed, spending vast amounts of time and effort in putting forward his sales pitch – he is thus employed!
 

On your website covering this individual there was one entry ( dated 14 Mar from Mowgli) which informed us that Tate’s behaviour would be fully compiled and passed to others including the AWM and various politicians. Has this report been completed and, if, so, could it be placed on the website?
 

There does not seem to be any updates on your site since 19 Mar 09. Am wondering whether there is a problem as I consider that the austvetmatters exposes many wannabes and needs to continue doing this.

Regards
xxx

From: admin@austvetmatters.net
To:
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:24 PM
Subject:  AVM AND TATE


admin@austvetmatters.net

Dear xxxx,
There are updates after the date you mentioned on the updates page of the website at www.austvetmatters.net There is nothing further we can add to Tates history or the mad galahs history at this stage. We spent months of research on them all. All we do now is monitor the mad galahs, including Tate, and expose any of their stupidity in the forum as is needed.We encourage all forum members to do the same.
Regards.


Dear xxxx,
Mate we and others have done all you have suggested. Thanks for the feedback and suggestions. We keep all the major ESOs, most fed pollies and many many Vets informed of many matters.Please feel free to send us any Tate or other info which you think is suitable. We will keep your name confidential. Yes we have seen your name floating around the mad galahs email lists but our coverage via the website, forum and email lists leaves the mad galahs for dead. The forum has a huge coverage and we have tried to kept your name as low profile as possible.
Regards.
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CD
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« Reply #174 on: Monday27July2009 »

FROM AVM......WE HAVE DELETED A NAME IN THE TATE EMAIL TO PROTECT THE INNOCENT. THANKS CD.

Here is a comment about Sasha's article........

From: xxxx
To: Allen Petersen
Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2009 3:39 PM
Subject: Re WHAT'S YOUR OPINION ?


I strongly suggest that those who either quote or support Mr Tate peruse http://www.austvetmatters.net/  for details on him which show Mr Tate in a very poor light. Having done so perhaps the reader may have second thoughts over whether he/she believes the unsubstantiated allegations in 'The War Within'. This writer has revealed that Tate has used AWM photos that were doctored and/or misquoted. Others have also noted additional AWM photos which were also doctored by substituting names of various individuals for the real ones in the original photographs.

I do not believe for one moment that the Vietnam Veteran community has been split as alleged by Uzunov. The number of supporters for Mr Tate's utterances could be countered on one hand.

xxxxxxx
Vietnam Veteran

Followed by the Dogs usual verbal garbage.......

From: Donald Tate
Date: 27/07/2009 9:01:45 AM
To: Allen Petersen;  tjimw1@iprimus.com.au;  Bernie
Cc: studiomartinek@bigpond.com;  eckap@hotmail.com;  Barry Corse
Subject: A Message for xxxxx
 
A message for xxxx.......

You're a dickhead mate, pure and simple. I know you're one of those gutless cowards who's been attacking me and others for years- a self-appointed expert who knows diddly about any of the matters you write about. The fact that you subscribe to a web site run by anonymous 'veterans' who don't dare show their face, who won't tell us about their own service, and of which one of the principals enjoys sticking his fingers in little boys' backsides says plenty about you as a 'man'. Most real men steer clear of anyone with any leanings towards little boys. Not you xxxx. You obviously enjoy the company. Here's a revelation for you- if you lie down with dogs xxxxx, you'll get up with fleas, and I suspect you're scratching yourself stupid about now.

Just for your benefit, I'll say it again- all my service has been documented by those I fought alongside. That's right- from 4RAR, through the 2nd D&E Platoon, and into 9 RAR. All validated- by fellow grunts, by section-commanders, a platoon commander, and a Captain who won a Military Medal. Every aspect of my service- right up to the very afternoon I ran into a Viet Cong ambush in support of a whole section that had been caught in the cross-fire. That's right- wounded IN ACTION!

That's "ACTION" XXXXX- not dixie-bashing. Not filling jerry cans. That was in the INFANTRY , and seven and a half months into my tour. No falling over logs or getting 'sick' or cutting myself shaving- but real, genuine ACTIVE SERVICE, you dead-shit. And hospitalised for more than two years afterwards.

Seven and a half months as a rifleman XXXXX- and carrying the M60 from time to time, as well (as verified in my films); ask some respected veterans who've actually watched the films and didn't run screaming from the room and book themselves into  PTSD ward afterwards!

I suspect xxxxx, that those who attack me- like you- have a very dodgy service history yourself. What exactly did you do in the war, might I ask? Get shot? Put your life on the line? I don't think so- not given the sort of man you are now. A piss-ant. Like your paedophile mates at the AVM web site. Blokes who even wear medals they're not entitled to- military 'experts' who whack on an extra medal and who have to hand them back when they're exposed. A 'band of brothers' all right- murderers, frauds, and cowards who don't reveal themselves to the light of day.
Yes- you're in good company xxxxxx.

Tell me, I've been in the ACT a few times. Why didn't you confront me man to man, instead of hiding behind emails? Explain that to the veteran world! Instead of this mud-slinging by email, why didn't you personally introduce yourself to me at one of the library sessions?

I know why xxxxxx- because you're half a man. One of thos veterans hiding inside veterans organisations to disguise the fact that you're all fluff. A little man with lots to prove, apparently, still trying to be a big man. Still trying to impress. What are you after- one of those OAM's as well?

Before my book was published, the publishers and their legal team (and barrister) asked for, and received, all the validating documentation they needed to support my book. They don't publish unless they get it, dickhead.

But you wouldn't know that, would you? Ever written a book yourself? I don't think so- it's half the problem here. Too many petty little men jealous that I was able to, and they couldn't. Even those who could write jealous of my relative success. Just a Private too, the upstart!

Keep your opinions to yourself, dickwit. Blokes like you are EXACTLY the reason why I have placed all these matters before the relevant authorities. The more I'm attacked by shadowmen like you, the more resolved I am to bring you and your type down.

You and your sleazebag mates have done a lot of damage- and hurt many veterans. Most prefer to walk away. Not me, prick. I'll take you and your type on anywhere, any day.

What surprises me most, is that good men actually take you and your gutless mates seriously. I'm real glad I took a movie camera with to the war.
Don Tate

author, "The War Within" 
"...a brutally honest insight into a life less fortunate....'A Fortunate Life' on steroids....takes the reader on a dark and shocking journey...."                                                   -  The Courier-Mail, Brisbane
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« Reply #173 on: Tuesday21July2009 »

From: xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: admin@austvetmatters.net
Cc: xxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 12:13 PM
Subject: ALLEGED WAR CRIMES

Gallipoli good, Vietnam bad

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au:80/view.asp?article=9187&page=0

 

By Sasha Uzunov - posted Tuesday, 21 July 2009

Don Tate, Vietnam Veteran and author of The War Within, has made explosive claims that his unit was ordered to dispose of the bodies of enemy soldiers killed during Australia’s most controversial war by blowing them up.

This debate has split the Vietnam veteran community. The purpose here is not to agree or disagree with Tate’s book or to pick sides but to find common ground between the two warring factions, who both have a democratic right to present their case and evidence.

No doubt there will be those who view the Vietnam War as immoral. But the cold hard reality is that no war in history has ever been nice and/or neat. Nasty things happened during World War I, II, Korea and so on.

Overall, Australia’s military had an impeccable record in Vietnam. There was no US-style My Lai massacre of innocent Vietnamese. Hypothetically speaking, it is one thing to blow up the bodies of dead enemy and another to kill innocent villagers.

There are those in the media who have a romantic notion of Gallipoli - a military operation during World War I that was a failure but which established Australia’s Anzac Legend - but who have condemned Vietnam.

We are also forgetting the Viet Cong communist massacre of innocent Vietnamese civilians during the battle of Hue in 1968 at the time of the Tet Offensive. And that many thousands of Vietnamese fled by boat to Australia post 1975, after the communist takeover.

Earlier this year, I remember sitting down to watch the evening news and saw a touching scene of the most recent Victoria Cross winner, Trooper Mark Donaldson, of the elite SASR meeting with World War II recipient Edward “Ted” Kenna, who has now sadly passed away.

It was one generation of brave Anzacs passing on the torch to another. It reminded me of a famous drawing of an old War I digger handing over the mantle to a World War II digger.

It got me to think: who is the person who decides which war is “good” and which war is “bad” and should or should not be part of the Anzac legend? Donaldson, serving in Afghanistan, was the first to win the Victoria Cross in 40 years since the last winner, Keith Payne earned his in Vietnam.

To call Vietnam immoral would be insulting to Australian Vietnam veterans and the 501 who died there. It would be a slap in the face for Long Tan heroes Dave Sabben and Bob Buick; it would be insulting to Coral/Balmoral hero Neil Weekes and Operation Ivanhoe hero Gary McKay, who is a famous author in his own right. Moreover, it would denigrate Keith Payne, Victoria Cross winner for bravery in that war.

It would also be a kick in the guts for Tate, who was wounded in action in Vietnam. It would be offensive to the thousands of Vietnamese who now make Australia home after escaping communist tyranny.

Ray Martin, born 1944, the hugely popular Channel 9 personality and reporter, built a rapport with the Veteran community and even offered to use his then program, Midday with Ray Martin, to champion a Welcome Home March in 1987 for Vietnam Vets.

In 2004 I interviewed Ray Martin by asking him:

… you’ve been a big supporter of the Anzac Legend over the years. Considering your enthusiasm and passion for the Anzac legend, could you explain why you didn’t volunteer for military service in South Vietnam? (1962-72).

Don’t journalists who report on war have a professional and moral obligation to undertake some form of military training, much in the same way we require doctors, lawyers and mechanics to be "trade tested"?

Martin responded (by fax on November 15, 2004):

I found your fax offensive, but I’ll answer it.

Being a patriot, eulogizing the Anzac legend etc doesn’t require anyone to volunteer to fight a senseless, immoral war. Even Peter Cosgrove [then Chief of the Defence Forces] has acknowledged that Vietnam was wrong.

Your nonsense about ‘moral obligations’ to serve in the ADF [Australian Defence Forces], irrespective of the rights or wrongs of the war, is just that nonsense.

I support everyone of our troops who put their lives on the line. But that doesn’t require everyone else to sign up, every time Canberra decides to go to war.

Being a patriot doesn’t mean you blindly accept what the pollies [politicians] want. You’re entitled to your opinion. I’m entitled to disagree.


Martin provides no evidence to back up his assertion that Vietnam was immoral. For the record, General Cosgrove called the Vietnam War a mistake because it was militarily un-winnable not immoral, much in the same way that famous WWI correspondents Ellis Ashmead-Bartlett and (Sir) Keith Murdoch called Gallipoli a disaster at the time. The Allies of which Australia was a member ended up winning WWI. The “Free World,” of which Australia was a member together with the United States, lost Vietnam in 1975 but won the Cold War against communism in 1989. Robert McNamara, the architect of the US war in Vietnam, later admitted the war was a mistake.

 

Respected commentator Dr Gerard Henderson has made the brilliant point, missed by many but so obvious:

As a consequence of Watergate, [US President] Nixon and his successor Gerald Ford, under pressure from Congress, walked away from the US commitment to provide military supplies to the anti-communist regime in South Vietnam.

This contributed to the conquest of South Vietnam by communist North Vietnam, which was supplied by the (then) Soviet Union.

Australia and the United States entered the Vietnam War in 1962 and pulled out in 1972 because of internal political pressure without losing a single battle. For three years an underdog ragtag South Vietnamese military managed to hold off the Communist North until 1975. If Gallipoli is seen as a romantic failure why not the three-year valiant struggle by our allies the South Vietnamese with their backs against the wall?


Be that as it may, the Martin mantra is that Gallipoli was good, but Vietnam bad.

This is an introduction to Martin’s story for 60 Minutes about Gallipoli (April 21, 2001):

Eight thousand, seven hundred and nine Aussie soldiers were killed at Gallipoli, but now 10 times that number of Aussie tourists make their pilgrimage each year. Most of them are about the same age as the soldiers who died there.

As Ray Martin reports, it's a phenomenon, almost a rite of passage - young Australians in search of our history, and perhaps in search of themselves.

The tone is reverential for Gallipoli but not for Vietnam. Why? Gallipoli was a military failure that cost more than 8,000 Australian lives and was fought in someone else’s backyard, Turkey.

One of the reasons why Australia’s Vietnam War was seen as immoral comes from media perceptions that have been now discredited, in particular the infamous, exaggerated Viet Cong Water Torture story that never was but brought fame and fortune to newsman John Sorrell in 1968, who later became Director of News at Channel 9 in Melbourne.

The Sorrell story inflicted enormous psychological damage. Gary McMahon, a two-tour Vietnam Veteran, tells of a mate who was: “Absolutely destroyed later in his life about the lies and insinuations that came from the bullshit in that report. I served two tours of duty, saw a lot of action and cannot recall one incidence of anything more than an Aussie kicking an enemy body or spitting on one. Like that whole war though everything was misreported, misanalysed, misunderstood and so on.”

I tried to contact Sorrell when he was still alive: he died earlier this year.

In a democratic society, we should be able to debate national legends and myths and taboo subjects. As far as I know, no one, including the media, holds copyright on the Anzac Legend. It belongs to everyone

Vietnam for better or worse will remain Australia’s most controversial of wars for the simple fact it was the first television war, unlike Gallipoli.

About the Author

Sasha Uzunov is a freelance photo journalist, blogger, and budding film maker whose mission is to return Australia's national defence/ security debate to its rightful owner, the taxpayer. He also likes paparazzi photography! He graduated with a Bachelor of Arts degree in Journalism from The Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology in 1991. He served as a professional soldier in the Australian Army from 1995 to 2002, and completed two tours of duty in East Timor. As a journalist he has worked in the Balkans, Iraq and Afghanistan. His blog is at Team Uzunov.

 

Other articles by this Author

•             » A special licence to investigate - June 24, 2009

•             » Science v sorcery: the risky business of predicting the future - May 22, 2009

•             » Vietnam nightmare ends with newsman’s death - April 24, 2009

•             » At war with his own Defence Department - March 31, 2009

•             » When politicians should step aside - March 19, 2009

All articles by Sasha Uzunov
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Zion
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« Reply #172 on: Monday20July2009 »

From: xxxx
To: AVM
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 10:25 AM
Subject: Letter "War is Hell"! About Don Tates interview with Sydney Morning Herald.


To All
This subject was always going to draw negative answers and bring us all  Shame.

When "War Crimes" are talked about in the general public they see "ALL OF US"" committing them . Haven't we been through enough negative stuff regarding  our roles in the Vietnam war. I remember this fella talking about war crimes a couple weeks before the Australian welcome home parade for Vietnam vets in 1987 he was trying to sell a book way back then also.

Some people will do and say anything to make that almighty dollar.
See below marked in yellow.

XXXXXX


* tateletter.jpg (31.24 KB, 238x400 - viewed 1093 times.)
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Fergus Fairfax
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« Reply #171 on: Sunday19July2009 »

I received the following during the week and make these comments.

It is easy to see from this Tate rant below that most of his "mates" don't support his lies, abuse and distortion of history. If there was absolute truth in all Tate has said all of his mates would be there behind him. That's what our mates did in Vietnam and that's what they continue to do to this day. But no, they regard him as a renegade and wannabe who embarrasses them all.

It WAS Tate who highlighted what he calls a War Crime supposedly commited with bodies at Thua Tich and Xuyen Moc. He can twist and turn and try and sneak out from underneath all he likes.

Tate I am convinced there is no conspiracy to change Military history, but like all who understand the Military [ unlike you ] I know there are errors and ommissions from  the records of all Wars Australia has been involved in. War is not like sitting in an office behind a screen typing up detail after detail blow by blow. It's confusing, messy, blood stained and errors and mistakes happen. 

The Military is not perfect and nor were all of the members who have served in it and continue to serve in it, but most of the Commanders and Troops were and are honourable people who did and do the best they could and can do under very difficult circumstances.

I reckon Tate you had many many mental and emotional problems before you joined the Army and they should never have accepted you. There is no doubt you were wounded, but so too were hundreds and hundreds of Vietnam Veterans. Most of your mental and emotion problems can be sheeted home to your childhood and not your very very short Military service.

Here's what I received.


From: Donald Tate
To:
Cc:
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 6:17 PM
Subject: Fw: recent media matters


For your info!


Don Tate
author, "The War Within" 
·        "...narrated with vivid authority, (it) at once disarms, repels, gives hope, as its narrator summons inner demons beyond anything that the war in Vietnam had made."   - The Sydney Morning Herald



--- On Thu, 16/7/09, warvet_69@yahoo.com wrote:


From: warvet_69@yahoo.com <warvet_69@yahoo.com>
Subject: recent media matters
To: "Bernie" <hill55@vtown.com.au>, tjimw1@iprimus.com.au
Cc: "Keith Poole" <keithspoole48@bigpond.com>, "Barry Corse" <dragon8@iinet.net.au>, panache26@optusnet.com.au, "bill dobell" <billdobell@gmail.com>, "Michael Mummery" <mmummery@chariot.net.au>, "Kevin Skippen" <kevinskippen@yahoo.com.au>, "Barney Bigwood" <ricb@bigpond.net.au>, remloc@optusnet.com.au, "kev lloyd-thomas" <henavale@iinet.net.au>, sealure2@bigpond.net.au, "George Mansford" <gmansfor@bigpond.net.au>, vickiw@iinet.net.au, "Andrew Ochiltree" <ochiltre@bigpond.net.au>, "ian morrison" <zunt46@gmail.com>, "garry heskett" <garryheskett@bigpond.com>
Received: Thursday, 16 July, 2009, 5:27 PM


Given the recent media attention to the 2nd D&E Platoon, and the matters that occurred at Thua Tich in 1969, I should like to make a couple of clarifying points:
 
- first, I did NOT approach the media regarding these matters. I was about to take my grandchildren to see "Transformers" last Friday when I received a phone call from Matthew Bunns of the Sun-Herald. These matters had been referred to him, and he rang me for clarification (we never did get to the movies)

- However, when the opportunity presented itself, I took full advantage of it to promote "The War Within" (which every author would do) and which is expected of me. I point out that there were no objections to General Cosgrove travelling the country doing book signings and telling his storyto newspapers, so what's good for a General should be good for a Private. Shouldn't it? I also observed Peter Fitzsimmons sitting at a small table at the Dapto dogs last year, selling and signing copies of "Kokoda". I purchased one, and we had a yarn about the processes involved

- in each of the interviews I gave recently (Sun-Herald; Channel 7; and Mike Carlton on Monday's 2UE) I took great pains to play down the whole notion of 'war crimes' and 'atrocities'- stating that they were 'peripheral issues'- that the greater concern was the falsification of official documentation and the corruption of the service records of the 40 men who served in that platoon- which led to some being denied pensions, and one man (Peter Allen) not being able to use the trauma he endured at Thua Tich as any defence in his murder trial (not that I am an apologist for him)

- pressed by the journalist for the names of any senior officers who might have an opinion about the matters, or support the processes of getting to the bottom of it, I nominated George Mansford and Neil Weekes, and if that embarrassed either man, my apologies to both

- and if they were misquoted (as George was) an even greater apology

- however, the 'outrage' supposedly being felt by 'ex-service organisations' (as expressed by Barry Billings in NSW) is irrelevant to me. These are the same organisations that never lifted a finger on behalf of the 40 diggers cast adrift by the incompetence of army ordinance back in 1969. And why didn't they? Well, for the same reasons why many won't ever involve themselves in any contentious arguments- their chances of securing community awards won't be enhanced if they tackle the tough questions, and rise up against government ministers. Most would rather get that 'gong' than support ordinary privates who simply did their duty, then found themselves in a no-man's land of army stupidity and political recalcitrance like we were (I was amused at a recent posting by Davis Christie, ex-4RAR, Eecutive member of the RSL, Goodna about his 'concern' for veterans welfare etc etc- when he has NEVER assisted the 40 veterans from 4RAR in any capacity in trying to reconcile these matters. All talk, some men)

- But most importantly of all, I do not represent, nor seek to speak for any other man from that 2nd D&E Platoon. Some have fallen by the wayside since the matter began, and that's their business. (Some actually bolted when the first shots were fired.) Nevertheless, I will pursue this to the very end, because I'm the only one who has been doing so since 1970- and that time will eventually arrive!

- today, I lodged formal letters and documents with various agencies. Part of that is an expectation that the relationship between certain high-flying commentators in the veteran community and the AWM will be investigated as to whether they are proper and lawful- and whether or not those relationships were established as part of the entire process to prevent the greater truths of these (and other) contentious matters being exposed

I will not back down. I will see this through. Watch this space.
Don Tate

Don Tate
author, "The War Within" 
·        "...narrated with vivid authority, (it) at once disarms, repels, gives hope, as its narrator summons inner demons beyond anything that the war in Vietnam had made."   - The Sydney Morning Herald
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grunter
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« Reply #170 on: Friday17July2009 »

THE VERY LATEST TO HIT THE MEDIA. One way to get your name in the paper. (AGAIN)


From: Barry Corse
To: 'Terry Westerway' ; 'Allen Petersen'
Cc: 'Jim Wiltshire' ; 'Donald Tate'
Sent: Sunday, 12 July 2009 5:13 PM
Subject: Re NO MORE LIES!
 
AGREED and AGREED and AGREED
 
Don and his opponents are also aware that behind every question there is a can of worms waiting to spread around an even GREATER TRUTH
 
From: Terry Westerway
To: Allen Petersen
Cc: Jim Wiltshire ; Donald Tate
Sent: Sunday, 12 July 2009 4:51 PM
Subject: Re NO MORE LIES!

I see the matter got an airing on Channel 7 News tonight (Sunday 12 July).
 
I know there are those who want to say "ssshhh", "shut up", "don't mention it" - but what is wrong with speaking the truth? We did not send a bunch of namby-pamby choir boys to Vietnam - we sent men whom we trained to kill (the enemy did the same thing). Words like "atrocity" and "war crime" are the words of modern "politically correct" apologists to whom anything that offends their sense of self-righteousness is a horrible inexcusable "atrocity". People speaking from their ivory tower of non-violence.
 
The simple fact is that many terrible things happen in war - it is only the self-righteous bystanders who want wars fought according to (modern) civilian OH&S standards and to make soldiers legally responsible for things done in the heat of battle.
 
I do not have any personal knowledge of the matter, but I accept the word of witnesses who say that they personally witnessed these events. So it was not written down - I can well understand why the officer-in-charge might have had second thoughts about writing it down (not wishing to be second-guessed by "base-wallahs" after the event). But the simple fact is that if such a matter were heard in a Court of Law, the evidence of direct witnesses would be preferred to whatever was written down after the event.
 
Don Tate connects the editing of the records about Thua Dich and the omission of any mention of the "2nd D & E Platoon" - whether that is actually correct, I do not know, but to those of the "ssshhh, shut up, don't mention it Brigade" I would simply say that if you had not denied and pooh-pooed the existence of the "2nd D & E Platoon" for so long and spent so much time pouring scorn on Don Tate and his mates, perhaps the sequelae of Thua Dich might not have become such an issue.
 
My personal view is "goodonya Don, stick to your guns".
 
Terry Westerway

 
Phantom force secrets....
No more lies ... Don Tate, holding his controversial book The War Within, says it's time the truth came out about his platoon in Vietnam.

No more lies ... Don Tate, holding his controversial book The War Within, says it's time the truth came out about his platoon in Vietnam. Photo: Adam Rainford
Matthew Benns
July 12, 2009

AUSTRALIAN soldiers dragged corpses behind armoured cars in a Vietnam war atrocity that officials have spent 40 years denying ever happened.

Now a request by the Vietnamese Government to locate the bodies of Vietcong soldiers killed in action may finally uncover the truth of what happened in the villages of Thua Thich and Xuyen Moc in May, 1969.

Don Tate, now 60, was a member of the 2nd D and E platoon when the atrocities were committed.

"Mate, this has been a bullshit cover-up for 40 years and it is now finally coming into the open," he said. "They will never find the graves because there aren't any."

It was only after Mr Tate's book, The War Within, was published last year that the phantom 2nd D and E platoon was finally acknowledged as even having existed. Parliamentary secretary for defence support Mike Kelly confirmed in July that the platoon had not been formally raised but had been born in battle.

Mr Tate, from Shellharbour, south of Wollongong, said the phantom force of 39 Diggers ambushed a much larger number of Vietcong in May 1969 in one of the war's biggest platoon-sized battles. Official reports claimed the bodies of the dead Vietcong were wrapped in green ponchos and buried.

But Mr Tate, who was a private in the platoon, said the bodies were dragged into a crater filled with claymore mines and C4 explosive and given an "engineers' burial" - they were blown up.

"There are no bodies left for them to find," said Mr Tate.

Another five bodies were tied by the ankles to the back of an armoured personnel carrier and dragged to a local village as a warning to Vietcong sympathisers.

In his book Mr Tate wrote: "Eventually the remaining bodies were dumped in the centre of Xuyen Moc, headless. They'd been banging around at the back of the APC till they fell off. God knows where the heads ended up."

Photographs taken at the time show the horrified reaction of villagers as the bodies were dragged behind the APC.

Following Mr Kelly's official acknowledgement last year, the Vietnamese Government approached the Australian embassy in Hanoi and requested help in locating the burial sites of all Vietnamese soldiers killed in action.

The Australian embassy's defence attache, Colonel Stuart Dodds, contacted members of the 2nd D and E Platoon and requested information on the location of the graves.

Mr Tate said the Australian soldiers had been acting under orders. "To cover that atrocity up the military establishment has wiped the official record of 39 Australian Diggers, denying some of them access to war pensions. Finally the truth can come out."

The driver of the APC, Allan Stanton, who was from a different cavalry unit, earlier this year published a book, Before I Forget, that confirmed the accounts of the 2nd D and E Platoon members.

Vietnam veteran, retired Brigadier Neil Weekes, a member of the Prime Minister's Advisory Council on Ex-Service matters, said he was aware of the issue but could only offer a personal view. "I think there seems to be some controversy there and it needs to be resolved at a pretty high level," he said.

Brigadier George Mansford, who was a captain in the Australian Army Training Team which won four Victoria Crosses in Vietnam, advised against looking for the graves. "Some things are best left alone. If what we hear is true then it will certainly be rubbing salt in the wound," he said.

A spokeswoman for the Australian War Memorial said there was no "official view" of the "successful operation" at Thua Thich. "The operational records and veterans' accounts indicate conflicting views over the manner of disposal of enemy bodies," she said.

 
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Ethelred
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« Reply #169 on: Thursday16July2009 »

From:xxxx
To: xxxx
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 11:29 AM
Subject: FW: Don Tate - The War Within


 Interesting email arrived today and I do not know who authored this email. Nevertheless it does reinforce other reports about Tate’s personality and attitude towards others that is linked with his (Tate) own biography regarding his post service life.

I have highlighted what I consider is damning witness to Tate’s own words.

xxxxx

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello all,

This from a mate who served with a battalion for six months

Cheers,

xxxxxxx

Subject: Don Tate - The War Within

xxxxx,

I have read the book and this bloke is a born loser.

He managed to get into a fight every week of his life - and still does.

He was a regular and went over as a reinforcement to 4 RAR.  When they came home he "supposedly" went with about 20/30 other late comers to 4 RAR to TF HQ where he insists they were formed into the second D & E Platoon and fought a big action at Thua Thich.

There are a lot of references in his book about officers who got medals when they weren't there and the chap he refers to is Mick Woollan MC who was the D & E Pl Commander.

I spoke with Mick in Sydney last week and he confirmed that he had received a number of emails from Don Tate but has refused to get involved.  Mick claims that there never was a second D & E Pl formed but that the group may have gone out on ops - as he said he knew nothing at all about them.

I know Mick very well, have read his citation, and, after reading this book find it a bit hard to believe some of the claims Don Tate makes.  Tate was badly wounded in an action with 8 or 9 RAR - 9 I think- and evacuated to Australia.

Hope to catch up soon,

Regards,

xxxxx
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Zion
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« Reply #168 on: Monday13July2009 »

Dear SMH news,

One of your freelance journalists published a story over last weekend
about Don Tate and his false allegations about alleged Vietnam War war
crimes. You ought to be aware that Mathew Benns didn't do his homework
and has supported a known fraud and wannabe in the Vietnam Veteran
community.

Tate is well known right across Australia as a very sick, vicious,
abusive conspiracy theorist who will do anything to make money and
change history.

The truth about Tate can be found here

http://www.austvetmatters.net/tate.html

http://www.austvetmatters.net/updates.html
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Ethelred
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« Reply #167 on: Sunday12July2009 »

Tates book has been renamed. See the pic.


* Tate_-_I_am_a_wanker.jpg (48.71 KB, 678x386 - viewed 1053 times.)
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Cavalry
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« Reply #166 on: Sunday12July2009 »

On another forum this was stated about Tate. "Is this an admission that he was involved in war crimes (regarding the treatment of bodies)"

His ego is so big I don't believe he understands what he has gotten himself into with all these allegation against the cavalry at Thua Tich and Xuyen Moc in May 69. If he was there then he has admitted to war crimes himself by keeping quite about it all these years.
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Aodh
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« Reply #165 on: Sunday12July2009 »

Tate's at it again, this time in Sydney Morning Herald:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/phantom-force-secrets-20090711-dgms.html

Here's the first bits:

AUSTRALIAN soldiers dragged corpses behind armoured cars in a Vietnam war atrocity that officials have spent 40 years denying ever happened.

Now a request by the Vietnamese Government to locate the bodies of Vietcong soldiers killed in action may finally uncover the truth of what happened in the villages of Thua Thich and Xuyen Moc in May, 1969.

Don Tate, now 60, was a member of the 2nd D and E platoon when the atrocities were committed.

"Mate, this has been a bullshit cover-up for 40 years and it is now finally coming into the open," he said. "They will never find the graves because there aren't any."

It was only after Mr Tate's book, The War Within, was published last year that the phantom 2nd D and E platoon was finally acknowledged as even having existed. Parliamentary secretary for defence support Mike Kelly confirmed in July that the platoon had not been formally raised but had been born in battle.

Mr Tate, from Shellharbour, south of Wollongong, said the phantom force of 39 Diggers ambushed a much larger number of Vietcong in May 1969 in one of the war's biggest platoon-sized battles. Official reports claimed the bodies of the dead Vietcong were wrapped in green ponchos and buried.

But Mr Tate, who was a private in the platoon, said the bodies were dragged into a crater filled with claymore mines and C4 explosive and given an "engineers' burial" - they were blown up.

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« Reply #164 on: Monday29June2009 »

What the hell is Stumbles up to now? Was Enright really involved with the Thua Tich "battle"?

From: Donald Tate
To: Allen Petersen ;
Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2009 4:33 PM
Subject: Searching for Major Pound and Pte Bob Enright


G'day all.......
 
As we enter the final phases of the 2nd D&E Platoon matter, it is interesting to note a few aspects in recent weeks:
- first, there has been little or no comment from the cavalry mob concerning Trooper Allan Stanton's substantiation of the matters that occurred on May 29th 1969 (Stanton was Capt Tom Arowsmith's APC driver)
- Stanton confirms that bodies were blown up in a 'sapper's burial' and that three bodies were strapped up to Arrowsmith's own APC (this was deleted from "The War Within" because we couldn't confirm it at the time)
- the Government and the Dept of Defence have resisted our calls for either an enquiry or a Royal Commission.
- the AWM cannot locate any paperwork concerning Captain Pound's 'enquiry' of 1976 (where no one was called to give evidence)
 
Consequently, we are asking the veteran network to chase down two individuals to assist in clearing this matter up, so that Ashley Ekins' 'official histories' are absolutely accurate..
 
1. Does anyone know the whereabouts of Pte Bob Enright (he is the man who first made the matter of body destruction at Thua Tich, public, in 1976
 
2. And does anyone know the whereabouts of the Major Pound who conducted that 'enquiry' (he was posted to Darwin at the time...1976)
 
Regards
Don Tate 
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« Reply #163 on: Saturday27June2009 »

It does help when the libraries are contacted and told the truth about Tate. Don I am going to continue.
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« Reply #162 on: Friday26June2009 »

Ve-e-e-erry interesting.

There is a huge number of veterans living in the Maryborough /Hervey Bay area. Probably one of the largest concentrations in Australia.

Did Tate start to worry that somebody there might know the truth and blow the whistle on him in public?
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« Reply #161 on: Tuesday23June2009 »

Is this any indication to Veterans feelings? Couldn't have happened to a nicer bloke Grin

From: Donald Tate
To: Allen Petersen
Sent: Wednesday, 17 June 2009 4:27 PM
Subject: cancellation of Maryborough and Hervey Bay Library visits


Just an advice to any vet in Queensland considering coming to the Maryborough and Hervey Bay Libraries this Friday and Monday- they're off! 
The libraries required people to book in advance, but people haven't, (most just rock up on the day) so because there were few advance bookings, we decided not to make the drive north, and relax in Brisbane for the weekend instead.
My apologies to anyone who was thinking of attending.


Don Tate
author, "The War Within"
"..a book for every Australian...brilliantly written…a tragic account of a soldier who
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« Reply #160 on: Tuesday16June2009 »

I am not sorry that I am one of the many veterans that contacted Brisbane City Council. Also, I will continue to pursue Tate where ever he goes.  There is no point in contacting Murduch Publishing Don that has already been done both here and in the UK.

Stumbles we will never leave you in peace.
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« Reply #159 on: Monday15June2009 »

From: Donald Tate
To: drwet51@bigpond.com Cc: Allen Petersen
Sent: Sunday, 14 June 2009 8:28 AM


I've learned from Brisbane City Council that a number of "vets" have written to Council advising them that they should cancel my author talks up here in Brisbane. I want those gutless cowards to know that I'll be ensuring Murdoch Books is made aware of those letters- and let's see what transpires.

I know one source- the 'President' of a battalion ESO up here who spends his time sucking up to as many ex-officers as he can in the hope of scoring an OAM....

The trouble is....those films, and even the substance of my book, actually have helped many veterans come to terms with their own war experiences, and have been well- received everywhere I've talked and shown them.....husbands opening up to wives, wives talking to husbands....the fact that certain jealous, piss-ants have been working against me to make sure vets don't attend these talks and see the films, actually are working against their own kind.

Some of the vets in Brisbane need to stop bowing and scraping to the likes of that garden-gnome (4RAR and be men enough to make their own decisions. Why not take the advice of a real man like ex-Lt Col Bernie McGurgan of the Training Team, and get his opinion instead of a bloke who only managed a few months in the war before falling over and hurting his knee.
Too many men listen to weaklings and cowards- instead of being their own man.

I realise there are blokes out there who are jealous out of their minds, but get over it.
Don Tate


Don Tate
author, "The War Within"
 
"..a book for every Australian...brilliantly written…a tragic account of a soldier who struggles to survive in a constant storm of government stupidity, neglect, and indifference, declares war, and fights back to seek justice and recognition for himself and his comrades.." -
 Brigadier George Mansford (Rtd) AM
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« Reply #158 on: Thursday21May2009 »

For some time now I have been watching/reading the Tate saga and so decided to have a look at his site. On his site under the heading of 'Articles' is a page devoted to Bob Coker's Casualty List. Now, having known Bob Coker for a good number of years I read this 'article' very carefully to see what Tate had to say about him. What I found was really a 'bitch' session due to the fact that Bob had removed Tate's name from The Casualty List because of continual hounding by Tate that it had taken Bob 30 years to get the record right.
I spoke with Bob by phone for a while and he said he didn't want to go into the subject, let matters lay as they were and didn't give a stuff if anyone believed him or not. A few days later I spoke with him again and asked what are you going to do about Tate's  'article'? Is Tate bullshitting or not? After some persuasion Bob allowed me to visit him and look at what correspondence he had.
What I found was that Bob had included Tate's details on The Casualty List some 4 years BEFORE Tate found out about Bob's site and BEFORE the War Diaries were published on the web. Following that discovery Tate emailed Bob and couldn't thank him enough and pointing out that his, Tate's, name was not even in the Battalion history book which Bob already knew. Over the next 2 years or so Tate would often email Bob and ask, "Why is my name, Don Tate not on your list?". Bob would answer and politely point out that his name was "Tate", not "Don Tate" on the list.  In one email Tate replied that he was "a dickhead" for not carrying out the search correctly.
I have read all of these emails and I was astounded that Bob kept his cool for so long, I wouldn't have, thats for sure, I would have told Tate to piss off and not to bother him again.
In his 'article' Tate goes on about Bob including people that were RTA'd due to illness. According to Bob, anyone who fell into that category had to be replaced in country and that meant another person who would have to be sent from Australia as a replacement. My question, how many people did Tate know of that were replaced due to malaria? There must have been a few.
Now, after all of this Bob had had enough, had a gutfull in fact, so he clearly stated on 22 Dec last year that he had removed Tate's name from the list because of Tate's very poor attitude, derogatory remarks and vile language. After this, Bob had a deep think about it and on 24 Dec re-included Tate's details but to this date Tate still maintains that his name is not on the list, maybe he can't spell his own name.

Anyway people, thats what I've been able to find out about the 'tiff' between Bob and Tate. Oh!, I do have all the copies of the emails between the 2 of them.

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« Reply #157 on: Sunday17May2009 »

All Forum members note that the Personal Messages facility has been enabled. This means MEMBERS can send private messages to each other unless you turn the option OFF in your profile.
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« Reply #156 on: Saturday16May2009 »

Am wondering how many of Tates critics have the same incentive to criticise him face to face in one of the many venues that he is talking as they have by this electronic means. I have... was an interesting argument/debate.

Can you give an outline of what you debated with him.......

I certainly intend to confront him when he turns up to my loc.

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« Reply #155 on: Saturday16May2009 »

I would attend each one of his "presentations" and confront him. Congrats for doing so.   Pity a few more don't. Tate has not been in my area yet
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« Reply #154 on: Friday15May2009 »

Am wondering how many of Tates critics have the same incentive to criticise him face to face in one of the many venues that he is talking as they have by this electronic means. I have... was an interesting argument/debate.
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« Reply #153 on: Thursday14May2009 »

Let's have a look and see how Tate and his mad galah minders line up for credibilty and follow through.

In a nutshell they are all like a well oiled politician, well practiced in spin, well practiced in lies and well practiced in acting.

We have had Corse and Briggs scampering around the internet from 2006, threatening Court action against all and sundry who had the temerity to question them, threatening to expose supposed corruption in high places and low, threatening to overthrow Governments, Oppositions and the public service together with the ADF and the major ESO leaderships and to top it all off claiming they had verifiable evidence to back up their absurd and abusive claims.

What happened? Nothing.

Then we have had to endure stupid, conspiracy central coordinator Jim Wiltshire boasting of the same things and more. He even has the AFP, senior politicians and senior ADF Commanders onside, so he says.

What happened? Nothing.

Then Colmer rode onto the scene with his foul mouthed, anger fueled threats to kill people and shut down various websites. We heard how he would even go into the AWM and injure or kill AWM staff. We heard how he would not be held accountable for his actions and then we heard how he was taking all the mad galah conspiratorial nonsense to the Administrative Appeals Tribunal in January 2009.

What happened? Nothing.

Tate has promised time after time that he is going to haul anybody who dares question him or call him to account into court for God alone knows what. Probably defamation. The only thing he did was apply for an AVO against a Veteran because that Veteran sent him an email from another Veteran.NSW Law being what NSW Law is the AVO was automatically granted because the Queensland Veteran chose not to appear in the Kiama Court for personal reasons. Tate is a bully boy and has said time after time he will physically sort people out.

What has happened? Nothing.

On and on this mad mob go, raving and ranting, making hollow threats, implying the AFP are investigating a whole series of people and websites, yet the AFP are not acting on anything from any of the mad galahs.

They are all huff and puff, all piss and wind, all tip and no iceberg 
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« Reply #152 on: Thursday14May2009 »

Tate as usual, being the obnoxious CNUT he really is......as if he can deny Alan  Price from attending any of his public engagements?Huh?........what a turd of the finest calibre he really is.......maybe I will attend his Nerang speakfest..........and review his D & E materials.......seems he has found the fraudulent documents we have all waited for..... Huh

and by the way, what ever happened to Colmers action against the NAA, AWM and Defence..................it was supposed to run in Jan which much fanfare......cant find a reference at all....maybe he is all piss and wind too
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« Reply #151 on: Thursday14May2009 »

Has the AWM now given up entirely on Tate with only 2 entries in their collection for him?? Huh Huh
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« Reply #150 on: Thursday14May2009 »

Don Tate claims DVA are well aware of his book selling promotions, the work involved and his earnings etc. We say even if that is so Tate fails the work test as detailed in the VEA 1986. Don Tate says he is a TPI.

This is the latest workload and promotion for Tate, which may interest readers.

Delivered-To: hill55@vtown.com.au
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 23:27:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Donald Tate warvet_69@yahoo.com
Subject: Don Tate's Speaking Itinerary- "The War Within": May-July

I'd like to invite veterans, friends and relatives to any of the author talks listed below during May- July 2009.
As well as speaking about my memoir - "The War Within" - I will be showing a new cut of the COLOUR films I took in Vietnam in 1969.

Please note that there is no obligation to buy my book- but the opportunity to see colour images of our war that your loved ones might appreciate. I know that most veterans and wives have appreciated them, and recently, the Mayor of Wagga Wagga was so moved, he could barely speak afterwards. He sent me a lovely letter afterwards.

The films show the 4th and 9th Battalions in the field between January and July 1969, and show normal field activities, patrols, movement by chopper and APC's, an air-strike, Vung Tau, wet and dry seasons, ID checks on Route 15, the Horseshoe, and so on- a cross-section of views that will bring back many memories.

I know that the ACT TPI veterans are more sensitive than the rest of Australia's veterans, and aren't allowed to watch them, but they haven't sent any other veterans to the funny farm yet.
 
The Itinerary for May- July is:


18th May at Wangaratta Library (VIC) at 3 pm

18 th May at Benalla Library (VIC) at 6.30 pm

20 th May at Caulfield Library (Melbourne) at 7 pm

21 st May at Wheelers Hill Library (<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Melbourne) at 2pm

21 st May at Coburg Library (Melbourne) at 7 pm

22 nd May at Bright Library (VIC) at 2 pm

22 nd May at Myrtleford Library (VIC) at 6 pm

26 th May at Casula Powerhouse Museum (NSW) at 11 am

28 th May at Picton Library (NSW) at 6 pm

2 nd June at Parramatta Library (NSW) at 1pm (talk only)

3 rd June at Orange Library (NSW) at 12 noon

3 rd June at Cowra (Information Centre  at 5.30 pm

10 th June at Toronto Library (NSW) at 10 am

10 th June at Kempsey Library (NSW) at 5 pm

11 th June at Inala Library (Brisbane) at 11 am

12 th June at Carindale Library (Brisbane) at 10 am

12 th June at Chermside Library (Brisbane) at 1 pm

15 th June at Sunnybank Hills Library (Brisbane) at 10 am

16 th June at Garden City Library (Brisbane) at 1 pm

17 th June at Indooroopilly Library (Brisbane) at 10 am

18 th June at Mitchelton Library (Brisbane) at 4 pm

19 th June at Maryborough Library (QLD) at 10 am

22 nd June at Hervey Bay Library (QLD) at 10 am

22 nd June at Gympie Library (QLD) at 2 pm

23 rd June at Nerang Library (QLD) at 10 am

23 rd June at Goondiwindi RSL (QLD) at 6.30 pm

25 th June at Narrabri Library (NSW) at 10.30 am

25 th June at Muswellbrook Library (NSW) at  6.30 pm

26 th June at Lithgow Library (NSW) at 10 am

8 th July at Wollongong Library (NSW) at 6 pm

I will also bring along other materials in relation to the 2nd D&E Platoon matter.

DVA has been advised, and been invited. So too, the various VVCS offices, and counsellors.

Just one note- this invitation is NOT issued to Alan Price, President of 4RAR (QLD) who has threatened to disrupt the talks in Brisbane and generally make a nuisance of himself. Forwarned, is forearmed.

Regards to all
 
Don Tate
author, "The War Within"
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« Reply #149 on: Tuesday12May2009 »

I suppose a lot of readers here would have seen Don Tate’s latest offering of around 10 May. 
He was with 1 ARU, 4 RAR, HQ 1ATF and 9 RAR.
If one veteran chose to challenge Tate on his role and actions while with 9 RAR, that was entirely his choice and had nothing to do with AVM or me.
My interest in him is confined to his lies about 4 RAR and 1 ATF service only.  He believes pounding away about his 9 RAR service and what happened will whitewash over his scurrilous lies and accusations leaving him as a wounded veteran to be honoured yet simultaneously pitied. Never happen.
Tate is using the well worn art of deflection, aka smoke and mirrors, much favoured by wannabes.  He wants the elephant in the corner to disappear leaving a mouse in its place.  Don’t fall for it. 
I haven’t finished with Tate yet, far from it.  He still has a lot to answer for.

Mowgli
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« Reply #148 on: Tuesday12May2009 »

Don Tate must be feeling guilty since we exposed him on the AVM website. He continues to run around the internet trying to garner up support for his terrible behaviour,for his inaccurate reporting of matters at the Thua Tich ambush and for his unprovoked abuse and defamation of decent Veterans.
 
How does Tate fit into the mad galah group? To rehash just how the mad galahs were given birth go here
 
http://www.austvetmatters.net/madgalahs.html
 
Tate quickly moved to build a public profile for himself when he decided to publish his latest book. He did this by becoming heavily involved with Allen Petersen and Jim Wiltshire's email lists, both of whom are strident mad galah supporters. This of course was his right.
 
We have always said Tate is just as entitled as anybody else to write a book and we have never disputed his severe wounding in Vietnam. The mad galahs as usual twist and turn matters and try to make out we have said otherwise.
 
However Don Tate didn't confine himself to the facts in his book and didn't confine himself to a well mannered,reasoned and polite promotion of his book on the internet. When questioned by certain Veterans about the military and historical factuality of his book he reacted violently and abusively by attacking those who asked legitimate questions...he reacted by attacking them in the most vile, personal and vicious manner.
 
Tate particularly took great pleasure in personally attacking a highly regarded Long Tan Veteran who was awarded the Military Cross for Heroism.
 
Tate saw there was notoriety to be gained by joining in the mad galah personal attacks on others, matters which had nothing to do with Tate and his book, and he then viciously accused people and ESOs who had never made any comment about his book or Vietnam Service, of being murderers, paedophiles, drug dealers and child rapists or part of organised rings engaged in such behaviour. It was Tate who first called into question the Military Service of others. He made his baseless and false claims again recently.
 
So in a nutshell Don Tate saw clearly that he could easily get his name and book up in lights by engaging with the mad galahs in their stupid and vile attacks on fellow Veterans, ESOs, politicians, the AWM, the former Governor General, the ADA and the media.
 
This is the truth of the matter.
 
If Tate had contented himself with simply promoting his book and publishing the military truth in his book the community would never have become enraged.
 
It is those whom Tate and the mad galahs have viciously and personally attacked in the most vile manner over the last three years who have been traumatised and who have had their health affected. Yet they have not moaned and complained or run to the DVA Minister for help like Corse and Briggs have done.
 
The mad galahs and Tate have brought the wrath and disgust of the Veteran community down on their own heads. We get back what we give out in life.
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Mowgli
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« Reply #147 on: Saturday09May2009 »

Where are the Tate supporters now?
I expected more from him or them but nothing since this. 
My underline.

Mowgli.

From: Donald Tate
To: Allen Petersen ;
Sent: Friday, 24 April 2009 7:58 PM
Subject: Final Word: 2nd D@E Platoon and Documents

Gentlemen
Attached, the best I can do to inform the veteran community as to the processes of proving the existence of the 2nd D@E Platoon. I have provided as much detail as possible, including accounts by Cpl Jim Riddle, and other documents, or extracts.
The only matter I have NOT discussed in this document are the contentions that arose in the field- but those will be dealt with later, and from within the RAAAC ranks.
Given the intensely personal attacks on myself, and others involved in this matter, I am formally requesting that the Defence Department hold an official Inquiry into the entire matter.
I hope I don't need to make any further comment on the matter. I believe this Overview says it all- and Ted Colmer holds all the documentation that was presented to Bill Houston, the Army's Chief Historian.
Have a great Anzac Day. I will be unable to march, but will raise a glass to those I know personally who did not make it home.
Don Tate
Don Tate
author, "The War Within"
- "...a brutally honest insight into a life less fortunate.."-  Ian McPhedran, Daily Telegraph.
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« Reply #146 on: Friday08May2009 »

Since some may wonder what the much mentioned Thua Tich area looks like, these are the Thua Tich gateposts, which were a most prominent wartime landmark and the photo shows them as they stand in 2009.


* Thua_Tich_gateposts._war_time_relic.jpg (252.04 KB, 1598x1022 - viewed 1087 times.)
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« Reply #145 on: Thursday30April2009 »

Where are the Tate supporters now?

We see a load of bullshit written by Tate or one of his wannabe cronies and passed on by “The Mailman” Allen Petersen who is about to flee the country, or has done so already, due to his latest info-blunder.  Maybe this arrogant prick of a “forum editor” should stay on his family prayer mat in the desert outside Haifa while his utter stupidity still lingers around Aust.

What we don’t see are “forwarded” words of support from Master Mad Galah Puppeteer Barry Corse and his wannabe cohort “Cambodia Dave” Briggs.

Where are these heroes now?

Corse, the “Saviour of Coral” and Briggsy, the “Covert Canbodia Warrior” . Where are you mongrel dogs now that the  pup you spawned, i.e. Dog Tate (as BC has now dubbed him) is under assault by vets who have had quite enough of his lying wannabe ways.

Where’s George Mansford who offered such sound advice to the Sabre Farce mob?  Advice that said keep fighting on against all odds when even the dumbest of dumb bastards could see daylight streaming through the holes in their bullshit tales.

Where’s Neill Weekes, another fine Officer who would buy a bridge off you if cheap enough?

These two finely bred Officers with not one wit of CDF between them urged the wannabes on for reasons best known to them but now believed to be for no greater purpose than pure self-gratification. Where are they now with their fine words?

The only bloke who has offered anything in the way of support for Dog Tate is his fellow bullshit artist and wannabe ambush attendee, Richard, “Barney” “Rick” Bigwood.

He replied to an email request for information not long after it was revealed that the application of mathematics to AWM photos in comparison to recent photos might show who’s who and by that I mean who’s really who. 

“The Army history unit has confirmed our existence. So that should be that”
“As far as Don's book is concerned , they are mainly his recollections of the era. I agree with all stated re the THau Tich ambush on the 29th & 30th of May 1969. However Don is his own master He is a mate that doesn't mean I unreservedly support all his assumptions”
“The official view is that the dead D 440 soldiers and medical staff were buried in green tarpaulins and that no bodies were dragged back to Xuyen Moc. We all know that they were blown up bar 5 (including a women) Because I dragged them to a crater for the engineer and along with Terry Slatery used our toggle ropes to tie the bodies tom Arrowsmith's APC. The driver of this APC has a book due out anytime, I have spoken to him and he confirms this happened, also the mortar men from 5 RAR who were with us. It APPEARS THE awm does not want the true history but the sanitized version”


Bigwood admitted that the man carrying the poncho with him in the AWM photo is not really Terry Slattery although Bigwood appears to have been the ”Identifier” for the description in the first place, in doing so he inserted himself into another man’s position in historic material.
AWM collection ID, BEL/69/0370/VN  “Identified, second from left, is 218527 Private (Pte) Richard "Barney" Bigwood”  No ID by Sgt Bellis, photographer.

Well Mr. Bigwood, I and one other still believe you were not in AO Frog or AO Scorpion between 25 MAY to 1 JUN 69. You did not shoot any antennae of any APC during the VC retaliatory ambush on route 328 on 30 MAY.

Also, Mr. Bigwood, who arranged for the removal of Tate’s “Sabre Force” video from Youtube?  Did you have a hand in that?  I think you did after you were alerted to height computations that will show that isn’t you in the photo just as you already admitted you made a mistake in your Slattery ID.

Where’s Dennis Manski?  He appeared to be the only fair dinkum one of the whole bunch. Did he see the “Engineer’s burial” of enemy KIA and their weaponry, stores. Did anyone? NO. They read about it in the newspapers.

My suggestion is that all Sgt Chris Bellis photo captions be further altered to remove any name shown as “Identified as >>” or “Also indentified is/are  >>>”  If Bellis didn’t note the names at time of taking the shot, I suggest all others have been provided by Tate-Bigwood for their own wannabe posing purposes.

Mowgli
« Last Edit: Thursday30April2009 by Cassius » Logged
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« Reply #144 on: Wednesday29April2009 »

On Anzac Day was listening to a few Viet vets chatting over a few beers, and they6 were chatting about Tate and his pucken book......one was very salutory in his praise of Tate "What a f***ing dill"   .......that about sums Tate up....and these chaps have no knowledge of what has been destroyed of Tate's theories and evidence.

Most apt I would say.,....Tate is a pucken dill.

« Last Edit: Wednesday29April2009 by Cassius » Logged
Mowgli
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« Reply #143 on: Monday27April2009 »

Tate needs to get his facts right.  Norm was not involved in the Thua Tich ambush and no one went "wild" at Xuyen Moc.  The APC guys were not prats and did know how to conduct ambushes. He makes me puck with the stories and lies he tells.  I think it is about time we send out factual info to all ESO's so he does not dupe other veterans who are unaware of his stories.

A message from a now defunct 4RAR board. Note mention of Norm Rowe, as if he knew those wannabe pricks or even had anything to do with them.
"Ernie Entwhistle" was the 48 year old (believed dec) 449915 WO2 Ernest Hayden that Tate recently dragged into the Thua Tich ambush loc. WO2 Ernest wasn't there either.
Adam Rainford is Tate's film maker son-in-law and I'll bet he's as embarrassed as all get out over his stupid wannabe FIL.  I can picture an entire family destroyed by Tate, the ignorant pig of a man, and for what! Personal glory? Money? Sick bastard.

Hi

My name is Adam Rainford. I'm the son of a Vietnam vet (navy) and son-in-law of a Vietnam vet (infantry). I'm a documentary film maker, and I'm researching a particular unit that fought in Vietnam in June 1969 - the 2nd D&E Platoon. I understand that it was made up of regulars from the 4th Battalion, and operated on APC's. I would appreciate any assistance/information that anyone can give me regarding this unit (names, dates, action, photos etc). Some names and references I have so far include: Jim Riddle; "Sabre Two"; Captain Arrowsmith; Normie Rowe; Ernie Entwhistle; Xuyen Moc; etc. Please forward this request on to as many vets as you can far and wide. I'm very interested to hear directly from anyone involved with this particular platoon. I'm researching this platoon as a potential subject for a documentary. It seems like a very interesting story, a piece of Australian military history not yet fully told.

Please ask anyone who can volunteer information about this unit to put 2nd D&E Platoon in the subject box of any email back to me. I can also be contacted by phone.

Thank you for your time.

Regards,
Adam Rainford
Mobile: 0403 213 332
rainingfilms@yahoo.com.au


Ever day BC sends an email to who he now calls "Dog" Tate asking for an apology to his D&E PL members. Nothing forthcoming from Tate except personal abuse so far, as would be expected. "Dog" is an apt name for grubs who call men "mates" and then turn on them when their usefulness has come to an end.  Tate is very much a TJ Wiltshire (ex-CPMH) or Barry Corse (ANZAC FORCE) clone kind of mongrel dog.

PL.  The word is getting out slowly but surely thanks to this forum and website and this leper will be totally untouchable by end 09.  Even the ESOs run by wanking wannabes won't go near him after AVM has (nearly) finished with the scum. The coward has accused one too many men of cowardice in battle now and has gone one step too far this time.  How many is that now? Around seven men so far.

The 7PL C COY 9RAR wannabe section scout is f***ed for sure.

Mowgli
« Last Edit: Monday27April2009 by Mowgli » Logged
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« Reply #142 on: Monday27April2009 »

They sure did PL, and the best in the business for the cavalry was Sgt. Ed Levy DCM, RVN Cross of Gallantry with Silver Star [deceased] and his section. Tate would like to say he did all that, but he did'nt. Just in case you are reading this Tate, this is how it is done with six to eight men from the cavalry. No Infantry were on board in the three ambushes below.

Early in the morning of 31st December 1970, a large enemy group entered an ambush area south-east of Xuyen Moc. The ambush was initiated by Sergeant Levy at precisely the right moment and for the next three hours he calmly and resolutely directed the fire of his section of three armoured personnel carriers. The fire from his small force was so effective that 21 enemy were killed and subsequent intelligence showed that many more were wounded.

On the evening of 7th January 1971, Sergeant Levy was commanding his section in an ambush position near the Horseshoe feature. When an enemy group approached his position, Sergeant Levy initiated the ambush which resulted in three enemy killed and one prisoner captured.

At 2210 hours on 21st June 1971, Sergeant Levy was again commanding his section in an ambush position in southern Long Khan Province when an enemy group approached from the west. Contact was initiated on Sergeant Levy's order and continued until 0400 hours the following morning resulting in twelve enemy killed and three prisoners captured.

He had more but those three stood out.

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Savage1
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« Reply #141 on: Monday27April2009 »

Tate needs to get his facts right.  Norm was not involved in the Thua Tich ambush and no one went "wild" at Xuyen Moc.  The APC guys were not prats and did know how to conduct ambushes. He makes me puck with the stories and lies he tells.  I think it is about time we send out factual info to all ESO's so he does not dupe other veterans who are unaware of his stories.
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Cavalry
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« Reply #140 on: Monday27April2009 »

I spoke to a couple [civvies] while on the train to the ANZAC day march in this states capital. They had bought Tate's book. It seems he drops his dacks as part of his presentation to show his war wound, sick bastard.  Angry
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krt1.
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« Reply #139 on: Monday27April2009 »

There is more crap in that letter then in my top paddock, and we have 500 head waiting to go to market up there. Don STOP IT!!!  Release you are a dithering idiot.
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Mowgli
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« Reply #138 on: Sunday26April2009 »

Tate whines about anonymous people having a go at him but he's still more than willing to write his own references "anonymously"  The same way he wrote his Brig Pearson "letter"  What a transparent twat this wannabe is.

Mowgli

From: Allen Petersen
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 7:06 PM
Subject: ***SPAM*** Once were Warriors...now twittering schoolgirls

From: Donald Tate
To: Allen Petersen ;
Sent: Sunday, 26 April 2009 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: Once were Warriors...now twittering schoolgirls

(Aalen....I can't divulge who sent this, on their request, but the person has allowed the body of the letter to be forwarded on.
Regards,Don

Hi Don.
My name is .............  I am just a no one who is a T.P.I. who values my privacy and prefers to talk to absolutely no one.  Occasionally I put my head up and make comments, just like now.
Don I am so saddened at what is thrown about on these lists.  The many good men who are ripped apart and thrown down for no apparent good reason.
How awful that no matter what you say or how you say it that people don't seem to get it, all they understand is their need to seem relevant no matter what the cost.
No matter what lies are told and what destruction they cause.  I follow this simple philosophy "Love builds up and hate tears down".  I would like to give you a little bit of my love and encouragement.  I would ask you to feel good about yourself and know that at least one person appreciates you for the wonderful person you are.
If only those horrid detractors could see how they belittle themselves and how abhorrent they appear to sideline spectators like myself.  No wonder so many good men drop off these lists and prefer not to be involved in any Veteran matters.  When you all should be united, encouraging and supportive of each other you aren't, instead they behave like a bunch of starved jackals tearing up anyone and everyone who makes them in their mind seem less relevant.
I think it is just awful how once proud and mighty men have been reduced to this.
Quite frankly there is nothing I can do to help them and I refuse to make myself a target of their vitriol and hatred.
My point is this Don I have crawled out from under my rock to congratulate you.  I see you as an honourable worthwhile man who has absolutely no need to justify himself to anyone.  In my opinion your mission is accomplished, mission complete, done, finished.
Please just turn your back and enjoy your life with those who make you happy, ignore and forget those who would tear you down.  When you respond all it does is encourage more bad and unacceptable behaviour.  You owe no one nothing (terrible grammar and English, apparently though it is now acceptable)  except yourself, you owe it to yourself to be happy, you really don't owe anyone anything anymore.
OK I have embarrassed myself enough and waffled on too much.
I for one appreciate your sacrifices and thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Be kind to yourself and others, walk with pride and be happy.
Love and God Bless
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Zion
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« Reply #137 on: Sunday26April2009 »

We cannot wear PTSD as a medal and we cannot use any disabilities as an excuse for any unacceptable behaviour. Jesus, look at those we see regurgitated on Anzac Days by the media who suffered horrendously during Wars, like Vivian Bullwinkel et al. Did these people go on to tell lies, make money from their mates and abuse their mates up hill and down dale.

No Les there is no excuse for the behaviour of Tate or, as we have continually pointed out, the other mad galah frauds who are displayed all over our website. Tate just happens to have been one of the worst and won't stop his lies and nonsense.

Now, we would love closure. Why do you think we opened this website and forum. Um, we didn't have to. We could have just sat on the sideline, whinging and complaining like most and done nothing about anything. Yet we have spent vast amounts of research time, much work and much money to give YOU a place to bring all sorts of issues to the public gaze.

We look forward to your book and work to bring closure to the mad galah matters.
« Last Edit: Sunday26April2009 by Cassius » Logged

les
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« Reply #136 on: Saturday25April2009 »

Ok everyone.

Donald Duck Tate has been smashed to pieces on this forum and i think its about time a book or something else was launched to counteract his claims. Something that would decimate the individual.
You know invovle the media and varios witnesses.  Its time to make it official so we can gain closure of the matter.

This issue at present is destroying the veteran community considerably.

The man still served, and he was wounded.

The book contains plenty of allegations and as sugested a whole lot of ramblings. He is not the only one to blame in what was mentioned in his Vietnam experiences. I mentioned an individual previously.

 Yes ive watched all the accounts given by others.

He may well have been a cluster f*** as a soldier but hey he never buried his head in a sand bucket like the rest of the scum in this country that buried thier heads in the sand bucket during the Vietnam experience.

No doubt he can sweare affidavits and this/ that to the best of his knowledge in front of a judge. So be it it means nothing.

Yes we can assassinate him for being wounded and complaining about it but those that shoot back, have you been wounded in combat or operations.

Yes ive read his vietnam rubbish and i believe its time for others such as Arrowsmith to step up to the plate and sort thuis shit out once and for all.

I dont support Don Tate  however i would like closure on this shit.
« Last Edit: Sunday26April2009 by Cassius » Logged
Zion
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« Reply #135 on: Saturday25April2009 »

Old silver tongue, street wise Tate is at it again.

We have no intention of waffling on with a long winded apologia for where we stand. Mowgli has laid out his evidence, taken from the historical record and primary documents like emails. Readers can believe the "evidence" as presented by Tate, or believe the extensively researched historical documentation as presented by Mowgli.

We now make a few comments and observations on Tates rambling response.

Firstly Don we repeat our "challenge". Produce the requested Statutory Declarations.

Secondly we are certain Tate didn't write his long evidenciary reply without advice, help and support. If we were betting men we would lay London to a brick the material posted by Tate in this thread  was not composed by him alone, and we would contend he had assistance from at least one retired Senior Officer.

In that document which has been posted here we note many things, but one in particular. Tate states Capt Arrowsmith [Cavalry Officer at Thua Tich ] did not know the D&E Pl under the Command of Lt Ray Woollen was operating to the west of Thua Tich. This is drivel. Standard Operating Procedures were that Arrowsmith would have attended a TF Operations Orders Group in the Task Force map/ briefing room before his Cavalry Troop and associated forces were deployed and he and all present would have been given maps with the locations of all friendly and suspected enemy forces in the area. This was SOPs.

We have never said Tate was not entitled to write a book. We have stood against some of the information he has presented in that book and we have stood against the way Tate has behaved in the Veteran and other communities as he has tried to publicise his book.

Don Tate has engaged in appalling behaviour. He has used vile, rotten language to accuse various innocent people of all sorts of things, and he hasn't confined himself to their Military lives but has attacked their private lives. He has reached to the lowest levels by attacking the very esssence of who some people are as human persons. Just for one example he and his mad galahs conducted a relentless hate and lie campaign which was directed at Bob Buick MM. Bob is his own man, a man who excites deep feelings in people because he is a straight shooter. However this is Bob. There is one thing for sure. Bob is no coward, is no murderer, his OC Maj Harry Smith recommended him openly for his Military Medal and he did not lose his weapon at Long Tan, things these imbeciles have accused him of. Bob has not been the only decent Veteran Tate and his minions have viciously attacked. They have done this to muddy the waters, confuse the issues, pander to their conspiracy theories and to take the heat off themselves.

So all in all we go back to what we have said. Don Tate should provide the stat decs to dispel any suspicions he has lied.

We say again. Don Tate and anybody else is free to write a million books if they wish. We stand against lies being told in books and we stand against defaming, abusing, denigrating, threatening and demeaning decent Veterans to promote a book.

Tate is a master at word speak and it is important to read not what he says but how he says it and the context in which he says things. He is a master of illusion. Be mindfull of this as you read his reply in this thread.

And finally Don make a public apology to all Australian Vietnam Veterans whom you have tarnished by accusing them of being part of War Crimes.

We eventually get back what we give out.
« Last Edit: Saturday25April2009 by Cassius » Logged

Boots
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« Reply #134 on: Saturday25April2009 »

It seems Stumbles has released a new version of facts.

THE 2nd D&E PLATOON MATTER

For a long time now, I’ve been vilified, and attacked by various sources. First, because I dared to pursue the matter of the ‘disappeared’ 2nd D&E Platoon- which meant challenging the integrity of the military in relation to the accuracy of its record keeping. And second, because I dared to write about my time in Vietnam as an infantry reinforcement in “The War Within” (Murdoch Books)
   The fact that I dared to write my recollections seemed to upset the apple cart. Apparently, only officers have the right to do so, and some have taken offence at an upstart who has stolen their thunder. But it has also engendered some enmity and jealousy within my own class- that of the Private. Who does he think he is?
   Those who actually read the book, will agree that unlike so many other memoirs that deliberately portray the author in the best light possible, mine actually reveals the flaws and failures of a man, and in no way promotes me as being grander, braver, or more intelligent than any other. Only a fool would read anything else into it.
   Because the attacks are constant, and come from a variety of sources (including the AVM- a website run by cowards who dare not reveal themselves to the veteran community) I would like to clarify some issues.

The 2nd D&E Platoon Matter
   On May 29th 2008, the Australian Federal Government formally acknowledged the existence of, and the activities of, the “2nd D&E Platoon”. This was quite an event in Australian military history, because for the first time, a small group of men took the fight up to the gatekeepers of our military heritage, and pursued the disappearance from those records of an entire platoon of men who had served in an ‘ad hoc’ capacity for some six weeks as part of a combined, armoured/infantry force- and successfully prosecuted their case.
   In the Press Release, the Hon Dr Mike Kelly MP (himself, a former army officer, and lawyer) issued the following statement:

“….the Rudd Labor Government and the Defence Department have been able to determine that the Platoon did indeed exist and engaged in a series of important actions in Vietnam as part of the Australian Task Force…. I would like to pay particular tribute to the courage and dedication of the men of the 2nd D&E Platoon….. The action for which the 2nd D&E Platoon should particularly be noted for was the successful ambush they executed together with 2 Troop, B Squadron, 3rd Cavalry Regiment, in May 1969 at Thua Tich. This was a ferocious battle that involved the engaged troops taking on a much larger enemy force beyond artillery support and through many heroic individual and collective efforts were able to soundly defeat the enemy without loss.”

   It is important to note at this point that because it had been such a contentious matter within the veteran community for so long, the decision to formally recognise the platoon was NOT taken lightly by the government. It was made only after very careful analysis of a plethora of evidence largely unearthed by a former federal police officer- Ted Colmer, also a former member of the platoon.
   That evidence was then examined and analysed by the Army History Unit, senior bureaucrats, senior military officers, and political minders- and only AFTER that, did the government come to their conclusion that the 2nd D&E Platoon DID exist.
   The matter was made even more contentious, given that the Australian War Memorial declared (at first) that there was no evidence to support the existence of such a platoon, but a little later (when evidence began to emerge) that while a platoon of infantrymen had been operating as we’d said, they declared it was an ‘ad hoc’ platoon.
   In a statement made available to the veteran community on May 17th, 2007, General Steve Gower (a former army man) stated:

“An assurance was given that the history will record that their sub-unit comprised mostly soldiers who were posted as reinforcements from 1ARU to 4RAR in early 1969 (Feb/Mar 69).  When 4RAR returned to Australia in May 1969, they remained on the strength of 1ATF, held over as supernumerary to establishment and posted to HQ Company 1ATF.  From about mid-May to mid-June 1969, they served with D&E Pl, possibly as a single rifle section under command of a junior NCO. In mid to late June 1969, most were subsequently posted to 9RAR and served out their tour in Vietnam with that unit.”

   As such, the AWM declared that it would be added to the official histories- but only referred to as a ‘discrete infantry group’.
   Those who have been quick to point out ‘errors’ we have made in unravelling the material connected with this platoon should note that even a man of Gen Steve Gower’s rank and experience, has erred in his statement:

•   In the first place, 39 men can NOT be regarded as a ‘single’ rifle section;
•   and in the second, as he should have known by then, the platoon was NOT commanded by a ‘junior NCO’ as we all believed, but by a Warrant Officer in fact- WO2 Ernie Hayden)

   The decision to formally recognise the platoon was even more contentious given that the former Minister for Veterans Affairs, the Hon Bruce Billson MP, had stated publicly in 2007, that:

 “no such platoon existed, and that there had been no authority to create one”.

   Because of THAT statement, it meant that once the new government formally recognised that such a platoon had existed, one could only conclude that the platoon had to have been created illegally, or that it was a matter of gross clerical maladministration within the Army.
   
FORMAL STEPS TO RECOGNITION
These were the major steps to the formal recognition of the 2nd D&E Platoon:

•   In the 1970’s, a Pte Enright contacted Radio John Laws of Sydney Radion (2UE, I believe) and reported that he had been involved in the destruction of bodies at Thua Tich in 1969
•   A Defence Inquiry was established, headed by a Major Pound, and concluded that there was no basis for the allegations. However- it is important to note that NOT ONE MAN from the combined infantry/armour force was called to give evidence. No infantrymen. No troopers. No mortarmen. No sappers. And not even the OC of the force, Capt Tom Arrowsmith was called. What sort of “inquiry” was that?
•   In the 1990’s, I wrote an account of the 2nd D&E Platoon from what I could recall, and placed it on the internet with the provision that it would serve as a basis for an account of that platoon’s activities UNTIL others came forward and added to it. In that account, I placed myself at the listening post because from my recall, I had clear memories of all that had transpired that night
•   Major George Pratt (an army Reservist, and OC of the HQ Company, 1ATF) stated in a documentary, and in writing, that he had “created the platoon, and that it was called the “2nd D&E Platoon”
•   Former Lt Barry Parkin stated in writing that he had been called in from the field and briefed by Major Pratt to “train up and lead the 2nd D&E Platoon, and that the platoon was always known by that name”
•   Major-General C. ‘Sandy’ Pearson AO, DSO, OBE, MC (the CO of the Australian Task Force) stated in writing on 13th Nov 2007, that:
“The group who were unofficially termed the ‘2nd D&E Platoon’ did conduct themselves with distinction when used with a Cavalry Troop (the modern term would be ‘assault troopers’) in the Xuyen Moc area in late May 1969. This was, to their credit, a most successful operation…”
•   Allan Roach, a former rifleman of the platoon, sifted through the Roll Books and identified the names of all members of this platoon
•   Ted Colmer located an ABC interview with Capt Tom Arrowsmith (OC of the combined force) and through a detailed analysis of SITREP and LOCSTAT reports, was able to produce a day-by-day table that proved two D&E Platoons were operating independently of the other, at the very same time, neither necessarily knowing that the other even existed.

   It is important to note that Capt Tom Arrowsmith MG was probably also unaware that two D&E Platoons existed, and all his after-action reports relating to the operations of the 2nd D&E Platoon were actually attributed to the generic D&E Platoon led by Lt Ray Woolan- and NOT to the 2nd D&E Platoon being led at the end by Corporal James Riddle.
   After a major ambush on the 29th May, 1969 at Thua Tich, there were certain contentions that occurred- and as a consequence, the combined force was split up. The armoured corps Troop was replaced; and the 2nd D&E Platoon almost immediately disbanded.
   I was a member of that platoon from its inception on the 12th May 1969, till I was transferred to the 9th Battalion, RAR on the 15th June of the same year. I was in the field the entire time, except for a few days R&C- cut short after a fight in Vung Tau.
   On July 2nd 1992, I was bashed with a steel bar by an intruder whilst teaching. I was subsequently medically retired and received a $50,000 award by the Victims Compensation Tribunal for brain injuries. This has created enormous difficulties for me through the years, and in many cases, I have been reliant on the memories of others to construct my own service history, including my time with the 2nd D&E Platoon.
   That said, despite statements by both Cpl Jim Riddle and Cpl Kevin Lloyd-Thomas that I was involved in the ambush at Thua Tich (in two different locations) I have no personal recollection of either, or of those days.
   In a declared, written statement to the Hon Jenny George MP, (held by her) I stated that I don’t believe I was at the listening post.  One cannot be more honest than that.

SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION

(a) “The War Within”
   When I wrote “The War Within”, I devoted just one chapter to the matter of the 2nd D&E Platoon. Because it had been a critical matter in my life for so many years, I could hardly have NOT done so.
   I used Jim Riddle’s own accounts of the Thua Tich matter as the basis of my account of that ambush, with Jim’s blessing. He wanted the story told. That chapter was revised time after time as new evidence came to light- and the final version was sent to Jim Riddle and others, for comment, prior to publication. Jim Riddle made only two alterations- asking that a particular reference to Dennis Manski be removed for appearance’s sake, and altering my impression of his Gordie accent. In fact, he re-wrote the Gordie dialogue that appears in that chapter.
   Despite Jim Riddle and Kevin Lloyd-Thomas both actually placing me beside them in different locations at that ambush, I did not include myself in the account of that ambush. I could very well have done so- and defied anyone to prove otherwise.
   After all, we have learned that NO army records are necessarily accurate. Nor anyone’s recall. Not one man from that platoon (with the possible exception of Ted Colmer) has been able to reliably state his entire recollections from that short period of time.

(b) Jim Riddle
   I have been accused of using Jim Riddle in promoting my book. I refute that, absolutely.
   First of all, I knew Jim Riddle at Corps Training, Ingleburn, went to JTC Canungra together, and landed in 4RAR at roughly the same time. We were together for a while in 4RAR until a reorganisation took place. We also served in the 2nd D&E Platoon; and in 9RAR, though in different companies.
   Until Jim Riddle was repatriated to Australia in 2006 (?) we were unable to make much headway into the 2nd D&E Platoon matter. I must advise here (not for self-congratulation, but for honesty) that it was me who initiated Jim’s repatriation (which he has acknowledged) and also the process to get Jim Riddle the war pension.
   The battle to repatriate him was a bitter one, aided by many decent and honourable men, mostly former veterans, but including Howard Sattler of Perth Radio- a man genuinely concerned with the plight of all war veterans. On Jim’s return to Australia, he was met by government officials, welcomed home, and given all his medals.
   Even though I had been instrumental in the early push to repatriate him, when Jim arrived in Sydney, I was invited to join him for a photo shoot with ex-mates and comrades in arms. I declined. I could very well have done so. It would have been a wonderful, and timely, opportunity to stroll up there with the manuscript of “The War Within” under my arm and pose for that picture alongside Jim.
   I chose not to. I believed the moment belonged to Jim, and Jim alone. The picture, from the Daily Telegraph, is below:
 

   The day after that picture was taken, fellow 4RAR member- Ian Morrison, brought Jim Riddle up to the Highlands to the Mittagong RSL, where I shared lunch and drinks with both men, and a private reunion. He later shared a meal at my home with my family and other members of the 2nd D&E Platoon, and appeared on local news, WIN 4, where he was interviewed in relation to the 2nd D&E Platoon matter. He also gave an extensive interview to Adam Rainford for the documentary- ‘Sabre Force’. (Jim believed ‘Sabre’ was his call-sign.)
   Jim Riddle came out swinging against any man who disputed the existence of the 2nd D&E Platoon which he had led so capably for a month or so in the absence of an officer. In that period (by Arrowsmith’s spoken count on a 2-minute tape held by the AWM) the combined force killed at least 20 VC in two days alone, but was also involved in other contacts and ambushes, as well.
   All credit for the operations and results of the 2nd D&E Platoon were credited to L Ray Woolan’s generic “D&E Platoon”- the other platoon operating concurrently.
   Riddle was subsequently bashed at Angus House in Brisbane, and suffered a stroke as a consequence. No one ever investigated that bashing. He was hospitalised in a RSL Care facility in Caloundra, Queensland, and began the process of rehabilitating. He expressed the desire to return home to be with his family, and a new battle began.
   At a literary event held in Caloundra in 2008, I invited Jim Riddle to attend. (I could hardly NOT invite him, being my former platoon commander). Jim wanted to use that occasion as part of his battle, and we invited the media. Jim freely gave interviews.
   For the balance on 2008, everywhere I spoke across Australia, I informed audiences of Jim’s plight, and I know that men good men and women went into bat for him with local members of parliament.
   I have always considered Jim Riddle a friend.
   Jim provided a detailed, first-hand account of the 2nd D&E Platoon, and especially his role in the ambush of May 29th. It is such a detailed account, that no one who reads it could doubt anything he says. His recall is phenomenal.
   Below, I provide various extracts from his emails and accounts which provide answers to some of the matters raised by the armchair critics:

19th May, 2005 (Email)…this refers to the term ‘Sabre 2’ and how it came about:

Good day Don....  I've replied to Dennis and Zunt also the Royal Marine Assoc (NSW) and the 4 RAR rep.... all very busy and nervy... Like I now worry that I may be letting people down or maybe  I'm not worthy of all this attention. I have little to lose by pursuing this business, even though it's come as a shock. I am beginning to accept that there might just be a small lamp glowing, but I am keeping a hold on my expectations. As a matter of fact I have had to assess my feelings regarding the possibility of being permitted to return LEGALLY  to Australia to live out the rest of my life. At first the idea caused me concern. I am 65 after all.  But as I have wandered around and looked closely at my life here, it has dawned on me that I have absolutely NOTHING to LOSE. 
I can answer in the positive...  even if it's only for 5 or 6 years... I'd be far better off in the sun and away from this crushed and ball-less, semi-Islam, Pakistani- polluted island.   Blimey, I recall why I found it totally acceptable to leave this country in 1968 to fight for Australia. This place was dying then ... it's gone downhill very badly since that time!
Anyway... it's just a dream... but you have to have some dreams to hang yer future on, especially at this age!
Now then, you are considering a bit of memoir on the D&E Platoon,  so I wonder if you have the other little bits of info such as :-
- Their official title was D&E Platoon, HQ Coy, 1st Aust Task Force, and they MUST have that on record. In 1969 there was a cleaning outfit of steady staff, who did odd jobs around the ATF HQ Coy area. Then as you recall, they put us to use to be a true Cav. unit, based on the US style.  As you know, it was an experiment to exploit some intelligence being brought in from local ARVN Units.   
We were very lucky in our big hits and nil casualties, but  I heard it on the grape vine that the Brigade were asked why this small unit was being so successful, particularly in the Nil Friendly KIA/WIA quota? The answer seemed to highlight incompetence and even gross ignorance of basic military knowledge.... The Battalion Commanders were sitting behind the lines like 1st World War Generals, totally out of touch.  So the answer was to disband the Sabre 2 outfit.  Made sense!
    The Call sign  "Sabre 2," was agreed between myself and Arrowsmith on our first op. (Which was one of the few quiet ops we did)  It was based on a misunderstanding by me.  I asked Major Pratt (VERY APTLY NAMED POM!!) of HQ Coy for my call sign for SunRay Indians of 2 D&E, and he asked the Lt who was our 'behind the lines man' and he said he thought it was already called ‘Sword’ or ‘Sabre.’ 
Pratt then said,  "We shan't change it then. You' must stay as Sabre too!” That was it... I don't even know if the other outfit was called Sword or Sabre or Banana, but we became 'Sabre 2'..  I think the Sergeant who came over with us from 4 RAR; Chaney, was put into Task Force Intelligence, with the Lt. and stayed at home from then on. For which I thank God.

Further Documentation re "Sabre' Force
   I received the following letter from a very senior officer in late 2007. The original letter was sent to Gen Steve Gower, Director of the Australian War Memorial in May 2007. In this letter, the author puts forward a dialogue he had had with Maj-Gen 'Sandy' Pearson concerning the relative merits of the SAS as opposed to an infantry platoon. Many veterans have mocked me for asserting that it is MY opinion that the 2nd D&E Platoon was made up of superior soldiers. It was NEVER my view at all. I would be the last person to suggest such a thing. As well as this letter below, I can also confirm that at a meeting with Gen Steve Gower at the Australian War Memorial in 2007 (attended by myself, Ted Colmer and Kevin LLoyd-Thomas) we were informed that another senior officer had stated exactly the same thing as THIS officer does in the letter below. I also point out that the author of this letter also refers to the term 'Sabre Force'. I reveal the letter, but respect the man’s confidentiality:
15 May 2007
Major General S Gower
Director
Australian War Memorial
GPO Box 35
Canberra ACT 2601
IN STRICT CONFIDENCE
It is most crucial that the confidential nature of this letter is understood.  I have no wish to either distress or embarrass any person.  It, I think, corroborates certain claims on the establishment of a "Sabre” Platoon during the tenure of Maj Gen Sandy Pearson whilst he was Commander, 1st Australian Task Force at Nui Dat, South Vietnam.
In the late Nineties, I had lunch with Maj Gen Pearson, at the Union Club, Sydney, of which we are both members.  The purpose was to discuss matters relating to the Association of First Infantry Battalions.
After this, discussion broadened and I suggested that, given some extra training, the average Rifleman or Infantry Company could perform as well as the Special Air Service Troopers and Squadrons, or at least to an acceptable level of capability that any shortcomings would be indiscernible.  Gen Pearson agreed and then, quite unprompted, said, “Do you know, I suspended the SAS Squadron from operations when I was Task Force Commander”.
Gen Pearson went on to reveal:
• He was dissatisfied with the increasing tendency of SAS patrols to call for extraction at the slightest hint they had been observed or would contact the enemy. This was diminishing the flow of good Intelligence and restricting his options as Commander.
• A fairly ‘forthright’ discussion was held with the Officer Commanding the SAS Sqn, indicating that, if his SAS soldiers were not willing to do their job, he would find alternatives.
• The SAS Sqn was immediately to be withdrawn from operations – the distinct implication was that they were not fit for such and were hindering, if not endangering, TF ops.
• This suspension was indefinite until “retraining” was completed and the SAS Sqn commander could assure him that his soldiers were fit for ops and would not repeat previous behavior.
• The period of this suspension was, at least, a month.
Maj Gen Pearson did not further elaborate on this, not did I press him.  However, it was a stunning revelation, given the commonly held view of SAS and, I am sure, Maj Gen Pearson told me to underline his faith in the Australian Infantryman.  It is hard to imagine, then, that a Commander of Maj Gen Pearson’s skill would leave the gap in his force’s capability created by suspension of the SAS Sqn.
Beyond this, I would not further conjecture.  I trust that this is useful.
(Signed)

Thus….the term ‘Sabre Force’ became something we could hang a hat on. More importantly, while we have been accused of promoting ourselves as ‘super’ soldiers, it was in fact Maj-Gen ‘Sandy’ Pearson who coined the phrase ‘assault troopers” (as indicated earlier) and that is supported by statements in the letter above. At no point did any man in the 2nd D&E Platoon ever assert that we were superior to any other- only that we had (apparently) been chosen to complete a task normally reserved for SAS, and the other D&E Platoon (under Lt Woolan) wasn’t.
Why this was the case is for others to explain. After all, Woolan’s D&E Platoon had an officer leading it, and was fully functional; ours was led by a WO2 who rarely travelled with us, and left the ‘leading’ to Cpl Jim Riddle.

   For a couple of years, as the process of repatriating him wore on, Jim Riddle communicated with me from England, by email, and during that correspondence provided his accounts of various aspects of our service together. I was in the process of attempting to fill in the gaps in my own memory (which Jim acknowledges at various points) Jim’s version of events may not be as accurate today as it was when he wrote them, but I place them here as evidence of how difficult it has been for all of us to connect the dots:

5th September 2005 (Email): Jim discusses various aspects of the 2nd D&E Platoon:

Next:    D&E referred to “Defence and Employment”. The employment of soldiers around the Task Force HQ consisted of cleaning. So that's where my statement regarding 1 D&E came from. I wasn't being rude, or indicating a low opinion of them; simply stating that there were camp cleaners called 1 D&E, and they did NOT go out of the wire except to escort stores and supplies and the odd prisoner to 1 ALSG VungTau. The rest of the time they were domestic staff... not my fault they couldn't get out and gather medals as they undoubtedly craved! So Eddie Tricker must have been doing something else while these cleaners were cleaning? I do recall one of them writing home that 'at night he could write his letters by the light of the tracers coming over his trench... was that Eddie? As for being concerned they may not appreciate my opinion of them, they can join a fookin long queue!
The later D&E outfit did have similar duties to ours... but far less 'luck'.. They were victims of incompetent command misreading the current intelligence situation, as usual!
Next: To give more substance I would love to add a few lines on the other blokes who were there, but Don, for the life of me I can only recall you, and Snow Manski, and Big Ernie in any sort of detail. What can I say about you? Well you didn't do anything wrong that time, but I will have to go into more detail about you because you were definitely a character of ‘high esteem'. My kids grew up listening about Don 'Stumbles' Tate as bed-time stories. I asked them recently what they recall about you, and they said straight away that you were the best bloke I ever talked about! And of course, I well recall Arrowsmith... more may surface as I write... as usually happens.   I can't manufacture stuff I'm afraid... and it is a diary as opposed to a novel, so it reflects my 'missing moments' along with my vivid moments.
Next.. "The APC squadron had 2 other ambushes out... "  this shows that the whole squadron plus the whole 2 D&E were out on, typically, one AREA ambush of which we were a part, and we could also support each other when things went wrong, which they did at a later small infantry ambush, which Dennis mentioned, when we had to be rescued by APCs who were 3 kilometres away at night, when after springing the hit, the enemy started to surround us, and the M60 got clogged with wet sand and it got quite exciting for a while. This was the event that got me pulled in for a warning by Major P Ratt (yup! real name!)  that I was not being aggressive enough and should have killed more enemy. I apologised of course, and promised to fight to the last man and last bullet next time. He was very decent about it.
Next.. that whole bit about the siting of my infantry in relation to the APCs is to indicate to any readers who may be military minded... which I believe would be more likely!  That was what later worried Dennis (Manski) …that we could be hit by friendly fire from the APCs. It wasn’t possible. It's one of those bits of authenticity which are appreciated by soldiers who know that close units are often at peril from each other. Snow still reckons we took fire from Arrowsmith's .50 cals... but I had factored such possibilities into my planning... the final proof  is that no one got hit from the APCs (the cut claymore and flare leads were caused by the detonation; it leaves a cut ends !)   
Don, bearing in mind that we expect a lot of military types rather than young lovers will be reading this, maybe the details are instructional and even 'authentic' to those who would question my thinking, as they will undoubtedly will.

5th September 2005 (Email): Jim Riddle refers to the matters AFTER the Thua Tich ambush of May 29th, 1969:

The day after the Thua Thich ambush, we all gathered to dispose of the dead, except for those we tied to the tailgates of the APCs. The Brigadier came out and shook hands and then we started off in column to Xuyen Moc. I got on the radio and warned all infantry that we were going into an ambush. The APC commander (Not Arrowsmith) got shitty and asked who that was giving instructions, and I told him it 's "Sunray Indians, and my order stands to be ready for ambush". I forget his response but it was rude.
About 10 minutes later, the brigadier  was still over our location in a Souix chopper, but South and East, further along our track to the village, when he came over the radio that we were running into an ambush on our right at about 200 yards further on.
Arrowsmith later told me that Pearson was heading home when he heard this warning transmission and decided to take a flight down our route. He saw VC with RPGs on the right side of the track. The Track Commander was now fully on the ball and ordered a turn of 90 degrees and then 45 degrees and this put us right on top of them, but from their flank, so we rolled them up and killed the lot... there was only open ground for them to run to and we chased them to the finish.
That's the truth mate, and it should be very easily checked out because either the chopper pilot or Bluey Pearson (Brig) will recall that bit. Out of all the blokes in D&E, some of them must remember my warning. Dennis didn't seem to, but someone remembers. It's also why I knew the first men into the ambush the night before were not to be killed. If they had been, then the big crowd of people behind would have stopped short, and then reorganised, and we would have been in some serious pooh quite quickly.   
It's also how I knew there were those dead blokes in front of the mis-fired ambush, which you were on with me some week later.
Anyway, that was just one of the times I relied on psychic information. I honestly thought you knew Don, I know there were some who asked me how I knew things, and when I told them they didn't seem surprised or upset, more just sort of  "Aha!  I thought so"   
If that stuff is too deep for this writing, then leave it out or modify it so that it isn't so 'scary'. I intend to write a book about using it in war... because it is available to everyone.  I find it quite handy but a tad cheating!   
It’s ‘soldiering psychic’ stuff... when it happens to you in war, then you are likely to think you're just tired and imagining things. My greatest asset has been an ability to see patterns as they occur, and to recall the similarities, then I identify common denominators and study it as a project. It works for me, and I am about 3rd class.... but better to be 3rd class than blind and deaf.   

More about 2nd D@E Platoon:

“I also recall we were at the ambush with a dumb arse outfit of APC prats, when they sprang an ambush and they didn't know they had kills until I went out and picked up the weapons and brought them back. Then they wanted to run over the bodies till I told them they'd have to do the body-search. That was when I got all that Dong $ and put it behind the bar in Vung Tau for the platoon. Our motto was "What You See Is What You Get”! Jock Rennie got killed shortly after. Ah yes, Normie Rowe, the pop star, was with that APC group as radio man. I slapped him for being a noisy twat!  You were M60 sentry just as we moved off, and we went to Xuyen Moc and went 'wild'.”


I asked him for more detail about those ambushes....
   
“The ambush you refer to was one after Thua Thich, but just about 500 or more metres before, and on the opposite side of the clearing.  We were attached to a new and totally green bunch of trackies under Capt. Laurence (I believe). The group included Normie Rowe. The claymores were fired off at night when someone on sentry heard some faint noise and triggered it. The next morning I stood the infantry to, including you as I well recall, and then I went out front and collected 4 AK47’s from the dead.  I came back into the ambush position and handed the weapons to Laurence. He had no idea we had killed anyone, assuming it had been a misfire, and that we no longer had any claymores to defend our location, he panicked and tried to rush his whole outfit, including us grunts, out of the trees and over the clearing to a large open grass area. I hopped into his APC and told him to warn his trackies to avoid the areas directly to our front where the 4 bodies were, and he got all tough and ‘theatrical callous’ and told them, over the radio, to just drive straight out over the dead cong. I grabbed him and told him that if they did that, then his fuckwits could search the bodies, not us! As you know, when a body gets run over by tanks or tracks it becomes a mixture of blood, bones and clothing wrapped around cats meat. Not easy to search at all. So he immediately stopped being ‘theatrical hardman’ and told them to alter their directions of charge according to my directions.  We then broke out of the ambush, across the path and out across the fire trail, out into a wide open grassy plain, and I said I had to go back with some ‘Indians’ to sort out the bodies. This was his first action and he was in some panic at being undefended and in jungle. He was a total tosser. Later that afternoon, he left us grunts out in the grassland and drove into a village. There, his tosspot tankies emptied all our packs out of each APC and of course it pissed down torrents.  When we caught up with their defensive circle, our kit was swimming down gullies. They hadn’t even bothered to bring it in out of the storm.  I was well f… mad at him, and that’s how I came to slap Normie and to give Laurence a good snarling at. He reported me and the whole 2ndD&E Infantry as “a bunch of ill disciplined animals controlled by a disgusting foul-mouthed mercenary.” Blimey Don, calling me disgusting was a bit of a blow to my pride. When we got back to BHQ at the Dat, I was fronted up to OC HQ Coy (Major G. Pratt, if I recall) a real idiot pom, who told us we would get more kills if we aimed carefully and held our breath and squeezed the trigger when triggering ambushes!! No shit. Anyway Don, this was the ambush when I called you to get off the back of an APC where you were manning our M60 as sentry, and you came running to the back of the carrier and ran straight off the back, as though there was no 7ft drop! The M60 nose-dived into the earth and had to be cleared while we were out in the grassland. I believe you came back to search and ‘bury’ the VC. This was the time I discreetly collected many thousands of Dong from one of the couriers. These guys were going into Dat Do to buy supplies. The Yanks played it that the VC used to just plunder what they wanted, but that’s another yank bullshit story. Later I put the whole cash collection behind a bar at Vung Tau and we all had lots of free beer.  That was the last I saw of Jock Rennie, ‘cos he was killed in 9 RAR some weeks later. Well mate, that’s my solid recall as it happened. I hope this all helps to place some missing bits of your jigsaw. There’s quite a lot more..  .”

We did not dwell on the 2nd D&E Platoon. He also wrote about other matters concerning his time in the 4th Battalion, the 8th Battalion; the 9th Battalion; with some US unit; and again with the 4th Battalion; and again with the D&E Platoon of 1970/71.

Jim Describes the bunker assaults on Operation Stafford with 4RAR:

“I don't recall Allen (The Fragger) from our D&E exploits but, I actually met him when I got sent to Vung Tau detention for 14 days for slapping a sergeant cook. It was during my boob time that I again met ‘Snow’ Manski (Dennis). I was on chain gang duty and loading supplies into containers.  He talked to me, but seemed withdrawn. I recall taking him out into the killing ground at Thua Thich (where we’d killed a bout a dozen Viet Cong) to see his first dead, and he threw up. I figured I was doing him a favour, letting him see the real war. Maybe I was insensitive. Sorry to hear about Foster and Dooley (from the 4th R.A.R., who have since died.) I remember them, and Margetts was the skinny kid with black hair who seemed all agog most of the time. Was there someone called Lurch in the 4th R.A.R.? Seems to ring a bell. I do recall ‘Bear’ (Gary Winchester) getting a shot thru the magazine of his rifle during the assault on the bunkers outside of a Fire Support Base. His whole attitude changed after that. It was in his eyes that he was vulnerable! I also recall running up to where ‘Zunt’, (Ian Morrison) Tommy Douglas, Willy (?), and (I thought you were another) were pinned down in front of the bunkers and my machine-gunner got shot across his arse. Willy got a back wound, and Zunt asked me for more ammo- SLR and M79.  So I trotted back all the way to the last section and collected ammo off them, including from Blue Hempill and Sgt Peter Batty, then sprinted all the way back to the bunkers and tossed the extra ammo to Zunt.  The last bandolier got caught on a branch and we were both very reluctant to reach up for it. Lieutenant Bleechmore was our platoon commander. No one ever said thanks for that, and the next time the 4thR.A.R. came to Vietnam (1970), I joined them again, but they were a vastly different lot from those of the first tour! After the tour, we came home to Townsville, and Willy charged me with having 4 stubbies in the accommodation.  I was fronted up and told that because I had done detention in Vietnam, I was to be court martialled!! Blimey mate, they really hit me.  Willy came round after, and apologised ‘cos he’d been pissed at the time he charged me, and a couple of other blokes had offered to thump his head for doing it.  So much for pals....”
“I remember the bunker system, same one, when Zunt kept shooting M79’s into the trees and brought down great clumps of it in the belief that you were taking fire from up high. The second time we went in was a bit of a thing, ‘cos Black Jackson was supposed to take his section but he refused, so Bleechmore asked me to take mine in. I did, but I left my scout, (‘Mousey’?) at the back, ‘cos I didn't need a scout. We went in at the sprint to see if it was still manned. It wasn't.”

Conclusion

   In 2007, at the Vietnam Veterans’ Commemorative Walk in Shellharbour, a plaque was unveiled to honour Cpl Jim Riddle’s leadership of the ‘discrete infantry force’ from 1969. It was paid for by the Commonwealth Government through the Veteran Affairs Network. In all, the government allocated some $3,000 for that sandstone monument and plaque.
   Discerning veterans would ask this question- if there was no truth in the 2nd D&E Platoon matter, how was it that I obtained federal funding? The first part (trees/landscaping etc) was paid for under a Liberal Government, and the second part by a Labor Government.
   Add to that, the fact that the plaque was laid in August 2007, BEFORE official recognition of the platoon was formalised in May 2008, and it becomes very evident that the powers-to-be knew the truth of this matter, well and truly.
   Jim Riddle had a stroke just prior to the unveiling. This was our email exchange just prior to the event:

Email- 28th July, 2007: (original…including typos!)

G'day Don,  Jim Here...  regarding the request to unviel the plaque:-  I consider it a singular HONOUR to be asked.   I would have thought that your name should be there, instead, to recognise the years of strife you endured for volunteering to fight for your country!   If you decide to do that, I'd still like to attend as a small way of my personnaly saying THANKS to Don Tate!
 Also I owe it to 2nd D&E Platoon to attend anything that recognises their existence and achievements.
 All the Best to You and your family Don, now relax .. your winning!
 Keep to the Standard        James B. Riddle. ANZAC and Australian VetForce

Donald Tate <warvet_69@yahoo.com> wrote:
G'day Jim.....glad to hear that you're coming back home in the near future. As you are aware, IO have fought the bureauctrats for some 7 years to allow me to place a plaque on a rock at a local sporting field where me and 6 other vets and our wives planted a couple of hundred trees.
I have finally won that battle- which took enormous effort, and this week, I have organised the rock and concreting, and additional trees.
I would like to honour you by placing your name on the plaque as the man who unveils it- and the plaque will read (something similar):
“The trees around the surrounds of this oval were planted by local veterans of the Vietnam War on behalf of all men who sacrificed of themselves in that War. Lest we forget. This plaque was unveiled by James R. Riddle, platoon commander, 'discrete infantry force', HQ 1ATF, May- Jun 1969.”
 Would you allow me that honour to have your name forever engraved on a plaque in this small part of Australia? I will invite you and others to actually unveil it at a time that best suits you- perhaps September/ October this year.
 I will NOT have it unveiled by any Australian army officer.
Don Tate


   Unfortunately, Jim never made it, and the plaque was jointly unveiled by myself and Kevin Lloyd-Thomas, with Richard Bigwood and Ted Colmer handling the flag. The Hon Jenny George MP and the Mayor of Shellharbour were in attendance, and both spoke in relation to the 2nd D&E Platoon- and on the travails of all veterans of the war.

Don Tate, front- with Richard Bigwood; Kevin Lloyd-Thomas; and Ted Colmer at back, L-R

Brigadier Neil Weekes MC
Prior to the formal announcement BY The Hon Mike Kelly on May 29th 2008, the four of us who had been at the forefront of the battle to validate the platoon were invited to Canberra at the government’s expense for the announcement. At that meeting, we played Adam Rainford’s videotape of Major George Pratt’s admission that he created the platoon.
   We were also accompanied by Brigadier Neil Weekes. Brigadier Weekes had had nothing overt to do with the fight to validate this platoon’s existence whatsoever, and came along at his own expense simply as a witness, and perhaps to ensure that cool heads prevailed. We were grateful that he even bothered. And it is sad that there are those who read more into his involvement than was actually the case.

   I realise that no matter what evidence I provide, what documentation is produced, the attacks will continue. But I trust that there will be some intelligent veterans out there who analyse this material closely, and see that my accounts are the best I could do, under the circumstances.
   And keep in mind, my memoir- “The War Within” is a memoir- of personal recollections. It is NOT an historical document of any sort. Nor was it ever intended to be.
   After all, no one can write a memoir that is 100% accurate. No one!
   Not even a General.
   Try it.
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Mowgli
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« Reply #133 on: Friday24April2009 »

Another witness to the "Battle of Thua Tich" WO2 Ernest Hayden, unfortunately deceased. DVA VVNR details attached. nb. born 30/06/1921.
I will never be convinced that there were more than 8-9 D&E members there that night and the following two days to Xuyen Moc and Nui Dat.  Don Tate, Kevin Lloyd-Thomas and Richard Bigwood claim otherwise. One CAV Tpr thinks there was a platoon because he heard one of the Infantry giving orders as an Officer would. I believe that was Riddle. No Infantry wore rank in the field so who of the CAV drivers would know any different?
I have marked the names I feel were most definitely at Thua Tich in the early morning of 30 May 69, the morning after the "Battle" with ***  Those I believe were probably there are marked **

Perceived Tate-Bigwood influence in AWM caption descriptions of men has destroyed history rather than enhanced it. Thanks Tate, in your desperation to be a fightin' bush soldier you've cast doubt on your "mates" rightful places. Who could believe anything you've had your grubby hands near it.

Tate sends all his info through Allen Petersen for maximum exposure. Little does he realise this " exposure" is dwindling. Petersen can't be trusted to not fiddle with posts.

Mowgli.


"I dont see anybody leaping to tate's defence...where are corse briggs and wiltshire?"
 
From: Allen Petersen
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 8:27 PM
Subject: ***SPAM*** THANK YOU 2nd D&E PLATOON

From: warvet_69@yahoo.com
To: Allen Petersen
Sent: Wednesday, 22 April 2009 6:04 PM
Subject: The 2nd D&E Platoon: A thank you message

2nd D&E Platoon: A Thank You Message
 
The decision by the federal government in 2008 to formally recognise the existence of, and activities of, the 2nd D&E Platoon from Vietnam (1969) after years of submissions to the AWM, and various politicians was most welcome. The evidence was scrutinized by senior officers within the Army History Unit, and senior bureaucrats. Everyone knows that there were key players who pursued this matter, and unearthed all the evidence, but we don’t want to take all the credit. There were also others whose assistance and expertise proved decisive. In particular, we are particularly thankful to the Labor Party’s Hon Dr Mike Kelly MP and the Hon Jennie George MP whose courage and conviction regarding investigations into this matter was paramount- a far cry from the indecisiveness of Bruce Billson. On behalf of the former members of this platoon, I should also those others who journeyed some of the way with us, and without whom we would never have won the day. They are all former members of the 4th Battalion, RAR.
 
- to Allan Price, rifleman, (three months in country) for assisting us in the early stages by connecting former members of the platoon after 35 years, and for other advice, which allowed us to begin the task of putting the puzzle together
- to Allan Roach, rifleman, (and his wife Kay) for their painstaking efforts in securing the names and serial numbers of the members from of this platoon (see below) from various Roll Books..an arduous task that took many months, and without which we’d have gotten nowhere
- to Dennis Manski, a section commander of the platoon for providing specific details that corroborated other information, corrected details when required, or added to the information on hand so the history was always as accurate as possible
- to Lt Barry Parkin, initial platoon commander of the 2nd D&E Platoon for stating in writing that he was indeed the platoon's first commanding officer, and that he had been "instructed to train up and lead the 2nd D&E Platoon", and for not taking a backward step when know-alls disputed it
 
 2nd D&E Platoon Roll-call

 
2 Lt B. Parkin
   
Pte R. Clark
   
Pte I. Ramadge
WO2 E. Hayden
   
Pte E. Colmer ***
   
Pte B. Rennie ** (Dec KIA 7RAR)
Sgt J. Chainey
   
Pte C. Ebsworth
   
Pte A. Roach
Cpl J. Riddle **
   
Pte D. Edmond
   
Pte S. Ross
Cpl K. Lloyd-Thomas
   
Pte R. Ellis
   
Pte O. Schuler
L/Cpl L. Ellcombe ***
   
Pte R. Enright * (not at Thua Tich but note this name well)
   
Pte R. Secrett
Pte P. Allen
   
Pte R. Howie
   
Pte D. Simpson ***
Pte R. Appleby
   
Pte G. Hyde
   
Pte T. Slattery **
Pte J. Arnold
   
Pte D. Manski ***
   
Pte D. Tate
Pte M. Bann
   
Pte P. Morgan
   
Pte W. Whitney
Pte R. Bigwood
   
Pte A. Miller
   
Pte G. Williams
Pte D. Blazely **
   
Pte D. Moss ***
   
 
Pte H. Browning
   
Pte D. McGregor
   
 
Pte R. Cairns
   
Pte S. Paterson
   
 
To you all, thank you. And a job well done. You have been instrumental in correcting an oversight in Australian military history.
 
Apology- and an Historical Note: As Dennis Manski pointed out in an email to me some time ago, the records should be as precise as possible. To that end, I must correct one detail which I’ve been in error. For the best part of 40 years, myself and others thought Dennis Manski was the section-commander at the listening post near Thua Tich on May 29th 1969- the group of infantrymen who deserve all the kudos from that night. In fact, although it was his section that was involved- we've only recently learned that the actual leader of it on the night was WO2 Ernie Hayden (now deceased.) But it was Cpl Jim Riddle who actually ran the show. Dennis was just a rifleman on that occasion. I apologise to Dennis if my error as to his contribution that night has caused him any embarrassment. It certainly wasn't meant. As he knows, every man in that platoon has found it difficult recalling who was in which section, and where, at any given time, and this has caused us all some problems at various times.

Don Tate
author, "The War Within"
..a raw and very powerful voice  - Bendigo Advertiser


* 449915_HAYDEN.jpg (81.31 KB, 740x307 - viewed 1036 times.)
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cicero
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« Reply #132 on: Thursday23April2009 »

Having been a avid reader of Tate's missiles and emails for a few years, the bagging and attacks he has levelled as many, including myself, I ask this question of our Tate researchers?   The information which has rebutted Tate's claims and history........is it credible and supportive by way of evidence of documents and individuals accounts....

It is my view, after reading all that has been published here about Tate and his EFFING PLATOON, is credible.....

TATE IS ALL PISS AND WIND.............LET HIM SUE.....His recent acquired wealth as a prized and acclaimed author will help defray his solicitors and Counsels fee just to see if he was a case...........



 
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krt1.
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« Reply #131 on: Thursday23April2009 »

Keep it coming BC!!!  There is a whole lot more out there and a lot of blokes who went through the war in real life, not as a fantasy. There is a lot of difference between attacking a dirty dixie with steel wool, and attacking the VC or NVA with cold steel. Then there is the delusional fantasy of being frustrated with your uneventful life, so you adopt some one else's events and change the story line. Sorry Don you jumped about 30 years to early. Most of the blokes who went through the actions you are trying to portray as your own fantasy recollections, are still around and kicking. If you had only waited another 30 odd years you might have got away with a little bit of it.
My offer still stands come clean, bury that dam novel, and walk away from this "nightmare". Head up, shoulders squared, and step out in style. Think carefully because the mates you have surrounded your self with, will not stand beside you when they line you up and expose the truth of what you did. Don you are dealing with Professional Soldiers. Proud Men who put their life and limb on the line. Men who carried the Regiment and Army as a badge of honour on their shoulders, be them Infantry, Cavalry, or Artillery or any other Corps. These Men where proud of their service, proud of their Regiments, and proud of the part they played in them. You have taken their pride and sullied it. You have taken their honour and trampled on it. You have blatantly lied about the actions these men were involved in and tried to discredit their memories, bravery, and heroism by placing your self into their roles with in these actions. Come clean mate!!! Admit it. You were a dixie-basher, back at Vungers, behind the wire, given ONE chance to prove your self and you screwed that up. Sent home shot up and very angry with the world. It is not your fault that you were not born to be the hero that you believe you should be, it's a fact of life you were never suited to be a soldier. Blame the recruiting office, they should have known better, but they needed numbers and cannon fodder, which one were you?
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BC
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« Reply #130 on: Thursday23April2009 »

I guess the dixie bashing comment hit a sore spot with don.

Please tell us more about these " fairies ". With fairies comes fantasy.

The war within a fairy tale of fantasy as Tinker Bell and Don Tate take you on a trip down memory lane. He stumbles he falls he gets back up and he stumbles again as he poses and films the picturesque landscapes of Vietnam with his 35mm assault camera.
I declared Tate a permanent dixie-basher at 4RAR after his one and only OP with D COY. He was let off to spend a month at the Horseshoe to film "My War" TAOR patrols. I also declared him a permanent dixie-basher at HQ COY 1 ATF while the other 4RAR transfers got on with some sort of Soldiering.
I declared him a fairy because he is.
Tate does as Tate does..he twisted my direct shots at him to mean the entire 4RAR transfer group to gain some sort of pity or support.
Don't look now Dog, but 30 or more of those 4RAR transfer men aren't buying what you're selling. My bet is that they're just as embarrassed as Jim Riddle is over what you and your two mates Bigwood and Lloyd-Thomas have done in your attempts to leapfrog from everyday baggy arses to Super Soldiers with greater skills than our own SASR.

Tate says the transfers were accommodated near RAAF lines and then later in ratty hootchies near the COY boozer. Bigwood says they were immediately allocated new hootchies near the COY boozer.
What's the story Don?
Was the RAAF lines tale so you could trot out the bewhiskered old b/s "We put flares in the fly-boys latrine, giggle giggle?
Or was it that you and maybe five other stumbling bumbling excuses for infantrymen were separated from the main body immediately on march in to the unit around 0900H 14 May 69? 
I can see it now.."The following names, Tate etc,  to the ratty lines over there past the showers and boozer, I've got some pleasant duties for you later"..."Move"
"The rest of you to the new lines right behind the nine D&E hootchies, next to the boozer".."You will be taught SOPs for operating with CAV just as the platoon here before you have been doing for months in 8 man sections"  "It's what we do these days...It's called Recon-In- Force...CAV operates, we support them on the ground under CAV OPCON" "You will be issued one (1) Prick 25 set dialled into the CAV net for these patrols, try not to lose it"

And so, Tate's super troopers began working with CAV in AO Scorpion on 22-23 May 1969. The Op concluded on 31 May when 2TP 3 CAV and D&E section c/s 63 returned Nui Dat. The first and last "2nd D@E PL" op. Not one of those D&E men saw Norman Rowe arrive at Xuyen Moc with 1TP 3CAV on 2 June 69.  How's that load of shit going now Dog? Any takers?

BC.

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les
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« Reply #129 on: Thursday23April2009 »

I guess the dixie bashing comment hit a sore spot with don.

Please tell us more about these " fairies ". With fairies comes fantasy.

The war within a fairy tale of fantasy as Tinker Bell and Don Tate take you on a trip down memory lane. He stumbles he falls he gets back up and he stumbles again as he poses and films the picturesque landscapes of Vietnam with his 35mm assault camera.
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BC
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« Reply #128 on: Wednesday22April2009 »

I read that BC knew Dave Leske.....I served with Dave Leske for many years when he changed corps.....sadly he passed away a few years ago from brain anuersism.........good bloke....and could pull the chics toooooooo Lips sealed

Dave was a good bloke indeed, we were the two x 2 Sect guns..We met up at a small reunion of D&E plus some other HQ COY blokes in Wollongong around 1989...told us he'd gone to MPs..He was working in a car parts shop at the time...Later I heard he was crook and almost the next day he was gone. Vale Dave Leske.
The attached pic you've seen before but that's Coco Nowrojee laying out rounds for my gun and then there's Dave and then his offsider George Udvardy....All our guns were pretty well on their last legs (bipods?)  Armourer Capt. John Pronk kept them up to scratch with his knowledge, skill, and sticky fingers when some good parts were floating around..

Hey Dog, look at the pic...That's what M60 Gunners look like on a day off yippee shoot...clean cut and neatly dressed even for a morning laying on a range mound....not the war weary jerkoff you portray in your movie "My War"
Furthermore, we could strip, clean, and reassemble those old guns faster blindfolded than you could find an SLR bolt that had been jammed up your ring by an angry Corporal.

BC.
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Cavalry
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« Reply #127 on: Wednesday22April2009 »

Dave Chalk was the CPL crew commander on 12A, "Nympho" when he reversed onto a mine, estimated to be about 30 pounds. This happened just North of the Long Hais on the 29th August 1970. I have never heard of any NVA or VC throwing "bombs" under vehicles so I think this cook has his hand on it.
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« Reply #126 on: Wednesday22April2009 »

I read that BC knew Dave Leske.....I served with Dave Leske for many years when he changed corps.....sadly he passed away a few years ago from brain anuersism.........good bloke....and could pull the chics toooooooo Lips sealed
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BC
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« Reply #125 on: Wednesday22April2009 »

Speaking of Mother Quick, here's Dog Tate's luv letter today.
He sends everything to his mate Petersen for distribution. I've been barred from "Radio Haifa" (Petersen's list) but there are so many back doors these days.

From: Allen Petersen
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 3:59 PM
Subject: ***SPAM*** Fw: Brandon 'Bud' Cramer (Real Name: Cremer)

From: Donald Tate
To: Allen Petersen
Sent: Wednesday, 22 April 2009 1:51 PM
Subject: Brandon 'Bud' Cramer (Real Name: Cremer)

Brandon 'Bud' Cramer is the current mouthpiece from AVM doing a lot of barking. We've made a some enquiries into his service in Vietnam, especially since he referred to the 2nd D&E Platoon members as 'fairies' and 'dixie-bashers.'
The result:
- he served in 8 RAR for a few months, but no one recalls ever seeing him in the bush
- he served in D&E Platoon for the rest of his tour, and again, no one recalls seeing him in the bush.
Seems 'Bud' Cramer knows all about dixie-bashing, all right. He's a champion. However, we have a picture of him carrying the D&E Platoon banner in Sydney, along with another bloke called "Mother" Quick. Enough said.

 
Don Tate
author, "The War Within"
“..a raw and very powerful voice…†  - Bendigo Advertiser


"Dog Tate"?  Only a mongrel would turn on blokes he once called "mate" for supporting him. The "mates" reportedly shied away when Dog started on his more overt wannabeism.

Me an AVM mouthpiece? Not really, I'm just thankful to Admin for permission to post here.
Me "barking"? Yeah, I guess that's fair enough. I'v never bitten the hand that fed me though.
My limited time in 8RAR was on night ambushes and mess duties during the day...Us Reos copped a lot of crappy jobs..the Battalion men were f***ed from what they'd been through in the previous months...they never bitched or moaned but Jesus they needed a good break. What I did and didn't do while with 8RAR has been known by friends and respected acquaintances for many years. Dot Tate doesn't fall into either category, ho can go and root his boot.
I served with D&E but never spotted in the bush. And Dog says this after I sent him my very best warrie pics :-) (attached with another) pic taor02 is actually reversed on the website http://www.hq1atf.org/pix.htm showing my M60 loaded from the right. Clicking on the thumbnail enlarges and reverses the pic.
Last pic, Range 1, is me and my M60. (Yes Dog, MINE, not a borrowed one like yours)
My Gun No2 5717057 Ron Nowrojee to my left. A Burmese man, nickname "Coco" because of the wonderful cocoa colour of his skin. Top bloke. Right behind me was Sgt Bob "Obie" O'Brien. Top bloke. The only face that can be clearly seen is the No2 on the gun next to me, George Udvardy, Dave Leske gunner.
I got Quick to carry the D&E banner on ANZAC Day 93 because he in small ways assisted me in making the thing. I didn't know he was an a/hole wannabe then and when he brought his son along I thought it fitting that the pair of them do the job. Maybe Dog thinks Graham "Hawkeye" Hawkins or Mike "Mo" Allan are wannabes too. I'll pass that thought on to them.

Every time Dog is asked to trot out some pertinent info, out he comes with 9RAR stuff...Why because in it he gets shot, the only truth there is about him. He wasn't the section scout either. Imagine a stumbling bumbling reo being made scout?

I haven't finished with Dog Tate yet.

BC.




* taor01.jpg (51.48 KB, 624x456 - viewed 1158 times.)

* taor02.jpg (45.66 KB, 627x455 - viewed 1077 times.)

* Range_1.jpg (345.81 KB, 838x725 - viewed 1283 times.)
« Last Edit: Wednesday22April2009 by Cassius » Logged
dodger39
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« Reply #124 on: Wednesday22April2009 »

See attached about the combat trained Cook. He slides around the actual unit designation but can anyone name a unit other than D&E that fits the time, operation, number of friendly KIA etc?
BC.

He was a nasho with Headquarters, 1st Australian Task Force  25/03/1971  14/10/1971 
Australian Army Catering Corps
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BC
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« Reply #123 on: Wednesday22April2009 »

Spot on Ethelred - I got mine from the same source but I goofed on the ATF unit posting (oops). Roll Eyes
He also lied about being on a track on Op "Massey Harris" which hit a mine in Aug 1970.

Quick wrote in his Army News article that he was on track "Nympho" (Dave Chalk driver?) when it hit a mine while reversing to find a river crossing (bridge out) on the way to Xuyen Moc, of all places.
He claimed this happened in the De Courtenay Plantation to avoid tricky questions. It's all there on ANZMI. Make some Dog Tate comparisons.
How do you reckon I felt after having the man as a house guest and believing his D&E b/s yarns that I obviously knew nothing about because I was supposed to the f***ed unit?  I barely understood what a wannabe was in those days but after I looked around there they all were and close than I could ever imagine. My family told me I wore those disappointments on my face for a long while afterward.
BC.
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BC
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« Reply #122 on: Wednesday22April2009 »

LOL Yes I can believe even a cook would try to embellish their service history, I have seen it done on operations on which I served too.

80's
See attached about the combat trained Cook. He slides around the actual unit designation but can anyone name a unit other than D&E that fits the time, operation, number of friendly KIA etc?
BC.


* Lourens_article.jpg (1163.53 KB, 1700x1498 - viewed 1347 times.)
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cicero
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« Reply #121 on: Wednesday22April2009 »

AND WHO IS THE MOST POPULAR PERSON FOR COMMENTS ON THIS FORUM?HuhHuh?

NONE OTHER THAN "DON STUMBLES TATE" ..............seems his rantings abuse and smart arse comments continue.....

Good work to those here who continue to expose him....I was reading the SITREP site the other day.....they are not impressed with his accusations and innuendo about the Cav, Arrowsmith and others.

I wonder what the SAS boys have to say about his outrageous statments.



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cavman
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« Reply #120 on: Sunday19April2009 »

Spot on Ethelred - I got mine from the same source but I goofed on the ATF unit posting (oops). Roll Eyes
He also lied about being on a track on Op "Massey Harris" which hit a mine in Aug 1970.
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Ethelred
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« Reply #119 on: Sunday19April2009 »

Um Cav...this from the Vietnam Veterans Nominal Roll

Summary of Unit Name(s) Start Date End Date
1 Australian Reinforcement Unit  28/05/1970  17/06/1970 
Headquarters, 1st Australian Task Force  18/06/1970  19/05/1971


http://www.vietnamroll.gov.au/VeteranDetails.aspx?VeteranId=1234983
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cavman
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« Reply #118 on: Sunday19April2009 »

Quick's SVN details: 1 ARU/HQ Coy 1 ATF 29/5/70 to 15/5/71. 
He wasn't in country when C/S 84B was hit on 12/6/71.
« Last Edit: Sunday19April2009 by cavman » Logged
80s
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« Reply #117 on: Sunday19April2009 »

LOL Yes I can believe even a cook would try to embellish their service history, I have seen it done on operations on which I served too.

80's
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BC
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« Reply #116 on: Sunday19April2009 »

Agreed. The point was to highlight other frauds who have made claims to be in D&E Platoon or have tarnished the good name of those who did serve honourably in the REAL D&E Platoon. People like "Mother Quick".

80's

If there wasn't so much evidence to the contrary I'd have to think Tate is just one of many D&E PL wannabes. These wannabes are generally Infantry posted to HQ Coy 1 ATF but were handed duties like Batman, Clerk, Steward (me, Pig's Mess barman Nov 70, I say I transferred to D&E Feb 71, different records have different dates, my only reference point is some days before 7RAR main body RTA)
A posting to a Bn is clear cut.  A PL and Sect can be determined. Blokes served with easily identified.
A posting to HQ Coy was a broad thing with so many interior duties that after the war any cook, clerk, could slip in and be a D&E member anytime and anyplace he felt like it.
I knew Mother Quick well. He had me convinced that his memory was spot on and mine was stuffed.  He was a bit out of sorts "veteran" wise, a bit overwhelmed with problems so I got him to join the NAMBUS I had a part in running and also got him assisting in the design of the D&E banner and plaque to be ready for the Vietnam Memorial dedication and D&E reunion in 92. Mother, with Neal C,  carried the banner for the first time on that parade, the second being ANZAC Day Sydney 93.
I reckon it was around 1990 that Infantry vets in general first began to realise a D&E PL had existed. By then base duties people like Mother, one RSL Sec Henry Mee and two VVAA branch Presidents Bob Freshfield and Garry McColley had already been claiming membership.
Quick, Freshfield and McColley claimed attendance at a horrifying ambush in the De Courtenay rubber plantation area June 71. Can you believe that at Cook jumped in on that as well?
That incident slotted in very nicely with their tour dates and allowed them to be "attached" to the PL for that day.
Tate is as much a D&E wannabe as those scum and will not get away with his insults.

BC.

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80s
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« Reply #115 on: Sunday19April2009 »

Brutus.
"There were a lot of good men go through D & E Platoon and it was this platoon and its role which stopped TF HQ from stripping one of the already understrength rifle companies of a platoon in the bush where they were needed most"
Exactly Brutus, spot on.
Around 35 blokes (P) sitting within a minute's walk from "The Birdcage" and all ready to go in under an hour of  hearing "D&E Out". Standing by the Orderly Room waiting for the Tracks to turn up was the longest part of the whole exercise. That was "Employment", as were the guards we did in gun mounted Landrovers for visiting Aussie Army Chiefs and civilian dignitaries needing to visit Baria, Long Dien and Dat Do.
"Defence" came from the Platoon's initial reason for being. That of last line of defence for HQ 1ATF when it moved forward, one well known example being Coral.
Nothing special there. "Defenders" but in the majority "Employed" for other purposes whenever the Brig felt like it.  The 1969 men don't deserve Tate's petty nastiness.
Bud Cramer
2793136

Agreed. The point was to highlight other frauds who have made claims to be in D&E Platoon or have tarnished the good name of those who did serve honourably in the REAL D&E Platoon. People like "Mother Quick".

80's
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BC
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« Reply #114 on: Sunday19April2009 »

I went looking for info on who had been playing with AWM photo collection IDs. No Joy. Tate said recently that he'd been at the AWM ID-ing photos in 2007.
See below.
BC.



Australian War Memorial Research Centre
ReQuest

Response to your question with Question #: RCIS21368

Your question is:
I see that Chris Bellis photos of an ambush at Thua Tich Vietnam May 1969 will perhaps undergo some information changes.eg BEL/69/0370/VN and also other Bellis photos of men who were not identified by him at the scene.
The captions all say "Identified are...etc" indicating that the names were added at some later date.
One indication of a very late description modification was on BEL/69/0372/VN I have a copy of that photo which has no names shown. I downloaded it in late February this year. It shows a modification date of 6 Jan 2009. The names appear in the current caption.

I would very much like to know exactly who offered the identities of the men to allow for any and all Bellis Thua Tich Vietnam 1969 photos.
Should more than one person have been involved in supplying identities for captions, I would appreciate knowing their names as well.

BEL/69/0370/VN (also above) shows one man as Richard "Barney" Bigwood. That is very doubtful. He himself has identified the man to the extreme left of photo as Terry Slattery. Also very doubtful. I'm quite sure that "Barney" Bigwood was the "Identifier" Correct?

BEL/69/0353/VN Len Ellcombe identified by Chris Bellis but then there's "Also identified, (second from left), is 312641 Private (Pte) Brian Jock Rennie" I firmly believe Jock Rennie (dec) wasn't within 20 kms of that area at any minute of that day.

I was in that particular D&E Infantry Platoon at Nui Dat but at a later time, thus my interest.

I await your reply with great anticipation.

Best regards.

E.C.M. Brandon-Cramer.
Saigon.

Our response is:
Dear Mr Brandon-Cramer

Thank you for your enquiry to the Research Centre regarding some of our Vietnam photograph captions.

I have forwarded your email on to the appropriate section and you should hear from them within 5 days. i'm not sure that they will be at liberty to indicate how the changes to the caption were made but I will leave them to respond to you.

Once again, thank you for your interest.


Yours sincerely

Shelley Blakely
Reference officer
Australian War Memorial

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BC
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« Reply #113 on: Friday17April2009 »

Brutus.
"There were a lot of good men go through D & E Platoon and it was this platoon and its role which stopped TF HQ from stripping one of the already understrength rifle companies of a platoon in the bush where they were needed most"
Exactly Brutus, spot on.
Around 35 blokes (P) sitting within a minute's walk from "The Birdcage" and all ready to go in under an hour of  hearing "D&E Out". Standing by the Orderly Room waiting for the Tracks to turn up was the longest part of the whole exercise. That was "Employment", as were the guards we did in gun mounted Landrovers for visiting Aussie Army Chiefs and civilian dignitaries needing to visit Baria, Long Dien and Dat Do.
"Defence" came from the Platoon's initial reason for being. That of last line of defence for HQ 1ATF when it moved forward, one well known example being Coral.
Nothing special there. "Defenders" but in the majority "Employed" for other purposes whenever the Brig felt like it.  The 1969 men don't deserve Tate's petty nastiness.
Bud Cramer
2793136
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Ausvet
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« Reply #112 on: Friday17April2009 »

Good Evening all.  Im a newbie and fascinated with all this rubbish put out by the galah mob and this Tate wannabe.  Keep the pressure on them and hopefully they will be eliminated.  Once I work my way around this site and work out how to post things properly I'll be a little more active on here.  In the meanwhile keep the pressure up.   Your doing a great job
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Fergus Fairfax
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« Reply #111 on: Friday17April2009 »

This is what happens if you try to confront Tate and the mad galahs openly with the truth, or Heaven forbid, reason.

Don Tate never responds to reason, honest open confrontation or questioning with a balanced, polite and well mannered reply.

His response is always that of a lying and desperate man who has been confronted with facts about himself or his behaviour which he simply doesn't want to hear or know.

Be very carefull about confronting him with truth and honest opinion using your own name because if he is in season he will attack with an AVO.

AVOs in NSW, where he lives, are a dime a dozen and are very easy to get. AVOs apply across State borders. In fact the NSW Government is looking at ways of curbing the frivolous granting of AVOs to people for petty reasons.  If you can't be in Court for health or financial reasons the AVO will be granted automatically, no matter what evidence you may send the Magistrate.

This email exchange occurred when Tate was confronted over the last two days.

From: Allen Petersen
To: "Undisclosed-Recipient:;"@hosted03.westnet.com.au
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 12:43 PM
Subject: IS THIS TRUE


From: Donald Tate warvet_69@yahoo.com
To: Pete Edwards Cc: Allen Petersen
Sent: Friday, 17 April 2009 7:51 AM
Subject: Re Is this true


Another sad fu**wit, Edwards. You don't even know the basic facts of any of the matters you're talking about.
I'll let the 9RAR blokes sort you out.

Don Tate
author, "The War Within"

“'The War Within' reminds us that amongst us walk men and women harmed by war’s ravages.” - Mt Buller Times

 

From: Pete Edwards
Email: *******
To: warvet_69@yahoo.com
Received: Thursday, 16 April, 2009, 12:05 AM
Subject: Is this true

Let’s Have a Good Look at Don Tate.

In the cold heart of day let’s have a good look at Tate, the undecorated war hero, who abuses all and sundry about their service in Vietnam and the consequences that followed.

For he is, by his own claims, a “super soldier”, better than any SAS patrol member, better than any Jnr or Snr NCO, better than any officer who served in Vietnam.

But with no military qualifications! He attended no courses apart from Recruit and Corps Training, but in his warped mind, he was still better than SAS. He and the  other supernumeraries posted to HQ 1 ATF, were nothing more than replacements waiting to go to the newly arrived Battalions, as and when needed.

After Tate arrived in-country he served with 4RAR for some 6 months, which is good bush time. You can learn a lot in that 6 months! Especially unnatural changes to the vegetation in which you are working which may indicate an enemy presence.

As any Infantry soldier would agree with, regardless of his posting, once you became aware of these unnatural sightings, the hair on the back of his neck would stand up and his heart would start to pump, he knew that the enemy were very close. He would instantly stop the patrol from going any further and he would call the Pl Comd up and show and explain the changes in vegetation and explain what they meant.

That is what a normal Infantry soldier would do and his comments would not be questioned.

“Stumbles” was not a very good soldier as will be confirmed by some of his own statements a bit further down and as we go further it will become evident of how, he utterly failed 7Pl C Coy 9RAR and let them walk into an ambush which he knew was close.

A “Stumbles” quote from his book:

“For over two hours we had struggled our way up the side of a muddy hill, and in closing darkness and with a thunderstorm raging around us, the Viet Cong sprung their ambush.


To this day, the horror of that ambush will wake me at night. Sometimes I wake with a sense of guilt, perhaps not deserved, because I feel I had had enough experience in 4RAR to have realised we were walking into a trap. Sometimes I still see leaves tied together, and tree markings, and exposed fire lanes, and wake up in a sweat wondering why I hadn't said something, why I hadn’t reacted quicker.

At the same time, we were all dog tired. Switched off. Careless.

And suddenly, with an unbelievable roar, the enemy machine guns opened up on us from the front and side. The first section of 7 Platoon were cut to ribbons”. (emphasis added).


Tate wasn’t switched off – he saw the tell tale signs – and shut up!

Careless! Negligent! Yes, as guilty as hell, Tate knew they were close and shut up and by his inaction 7 Pl were decimated!

The Bn soon found out about Tate’s stuff up, big time as it was, the word went out quickly. Is it any wonder that his peers did not want his name included in the Nominal Role of the Bn?

So Tate comes home, hating the world, and has done so ever since.

It is not the world that he hates, it is himself. By his own statements he was a gutless individual before the Army, by allowing 7Pl to walk into an enemy bunker system when he knew they were close, more of a gutless and cowards act.

Ever since he has sought sympathy, from anyone and everyone! Read his bleating of being WIA!

How better to remove the guilt from his inactions and being a prime cause of the casualties inflicted on 7Pl C Coy 9RAR? I’ll make myself a hero! – everyone will agree and I will feel good about myself!

So, D&E platoon comes up many years later and with enough fabricated gloss and magic, Tate and his supernumeraries at HQ 1ATF, Tate invents them all as super soldiers and hero’s, they swallow it up, and in their eyes Tate is a hero. What he had always wanted to be! A hero!

The facts don’t matter to him, the dream does!

So he writes very glamorous descriptions about their supposed activities making the Province safe, according to him, the SAS or the Infantry Bn’s couldn’t but Tate and his cohorts did. Wow!

Tate has blisteringly bagged the SAS patrols due to his superior knowledge of how an Army works, despite the SAS having patrols of between 5 and 10 men. That’s bugger all when bullets start flying and they have to get out on a “hot” extraction. They were always going to be outnumbered!

But Tate basically describes them as being cowards because the small patrols didn’t stand and fight! If I led a small patrol of that size, I’d be out of there too, and so would every other patrol commander when contacted by a numerically superior force.

This is all from a Pte soldier whom his peers do not have very much to say about his abilities at all.

He’s a hero! Another quote from his book:

“On the day I was wounded I should have been in Bangkok on R and R. But a sense of duty to 'C' Coy who were a little undermanned at the time, and knowing contact with the enemy was imminent, meant I volunteered to stay in the field instead. In retrospect, perhaps it was foolish decision, but a patriotic youth can be forgiven such foolishness.”
(Emphasis added)


I’ll bet everyone in 7Pl C Coy wished to Christ he had have been in Bangkok, for very obvious reasons. He states “Contact was imminent” and he went to water!

Tate will never be a hero in anyone’s eye’s, only his own! Simply because he is not and has never been anything than a bumbling and stumbling very inexperienced soldier who did not do his job.

Tate also complains that when 9RAR returned to Brisbane, they did not pay him a visit in hospital.

Tate’s quote:

“I never got a visit from anyone in 9RAR when they came home, even though they returned to my home town- Brisbane. Hadn't really got to know anyone in my three weeks with them, and I guess I was forgotten by the time they’d finished their tour.” (emphasis added).


I would say that 9RAR had very good reasons not to pay a visit, and Mr Tate your decision not to give any warning to 7Pl has never been forgotten. You live in infamy!
« Last Edit: Friday17April2009 by Cassius » Logged
Brutus
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« Reply #110 on: Thursday16April2009 »

There were a lot of good men go through D & E Platoon and it was this platoon and its role which stopped TF HQ from stripping one of the already understrength rifle companies of a platoon in the bush where they were needed most. 

As it was we were always short on numbers for one reason or another and could not afford to lose anyone to the whims of TF HQ.

One such soldier did a full tour with 4 RAR, then went to HQ 1 ATF, 1 ARU, then 6 RAR where he won the DCM in a very large bunker system, then after 6 RAR, came back and did a tour with SAS. 

So the soldiers who passed through there should in no way all be lumped in the same basket as Tate or regarded as being only fit for dixi bashing..  they were there to do a job and from all accounts did it well.
« Last Edit: Friday17April2009 by Brutus » Logged
les
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« Reply #109 on: Thursday16April2009 »

Cassius it is a very despicable state of affairs where a select few have denigrsted the service of their brothers in arms for their own personal glory. Its a disgrace to their mates that served in D & E Pl and the Royal Australian Regiment.
There have been a few names thrown around this forum some of them ex officers " the brigalissiomos " that have contributed to the welfare of their fellow veterans and have provided support right or wrong over many years. I have no doubt that it was in good faith.
It would be a sorry state of affairs if they and many others should turn their back on the veteran community. They may very well have made the fatal mistake of ill advising Tate and Co, and could have handled the matter in a manner to discuss the issues between this second D & E Pl and the Armoured Corp elements at the time.This inturn would have prevented the contreversial shit published in the book which in turn may have provided a book that legitimately recognises all and sundry involved in or with this second D & E Pl.

As to all the self proclaimed VC winners, thieves, frauds and wannabees unfortunately no one has a hold on their actions and therefore should be exposed to preserve the integrity of all those who have served.

We all served theres no problems with veterans telling the odd tall story its when those tall stories assassinate their fellow veterans.

The issues surrounding this book are in dire need of closure so that specific individuals may be targeted to explain their ramblings.
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80s
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« Reply #108 on: Thursday16April2009 »

So if we didnt get wounded in our operational service then we are nothing in Tate's eyes? Makes about as much sense as saying if you DID get wounded then it was because you were crap at your job and you let your makes down.

80's
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Mowgli
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« Reply #107 on: Thursday16April2009 »


Even the Real D&E Platoon has its fakers (Lionel), what chance does Tates fantasy force stand of conning the defence community.

http://www.anzmi.net/quick/quick.html

80's
The vet on the left hand side holding the banner guy rope is 2793136 Ernest C.M. Brandon-Cramer. aka Bud Cramer. Photo 1993.
He wants Tate to apologise for the insults directed at former D&E members.
Tate came back with.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Donald Tate <warvet_69@yahoo.com>
Date: 2009/4/14
Subject:
To: bud

Who diod you really serve with Ernest? Anyone remember you? Were you ever wounded Ernest? Did you ever see any action at all? Ever get dirty? You don't scare me Ernest. Like a few others, all mouth.

Don Tate
author, "The War Within"
“'The War Within' reminds us that amongst us walk men and women harmed by war’s ravages.” - Mt Buller Times
[/i]


To answer the professional woundee's first question.
"Who diod you really serve with Ernest?"
What looks to be a $200-$300 banner, back then, made by him and now D&E Pl property, plus the fact he organised a major D&E reunion in Canberra 1992 says served and strongly affiliated with D&E Platoon.
The other questions are mindless, not worth touching.

Anyone who got involved with Tate and then stopped supporting his 2D&E cause would be declared bludgers if on the TPI without having been wounded. Tate would phone DVA and report the veterans for lying in DVA claims. Apparently some Section 31 (?) reviews came out of this.

Mowgli.
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Zion
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« Reply #106 on: Thursday16April2009 »

Quick, Kevin Lionel"Mother" 5 Jan 2008

Courtesy http://www.anzmi.net/


 KEVIN LIONEL QUICK ex 2792990  nickname ' Mother '  This story has been compiled by a D & E member who served in the unit at the same time as  "Mother" Quick.  The story you are about to read has been verified by other members of the Defence and Employment Platoon  [D & E Pl] and this is their true recollection of events.  All facts have been checked against military records by ANZMI and what you see here, is the real story.  more http://www.anzmi.net/quick/quick.html

Custodial sentence awarded

 FROM AVM ADMINISTRATOR

Boys let's be carefull not to lump all those who served in different places in with frauds and wannabes. We believe in truth and fairness, and we understand we all served in different places doing different things. We need to avoid denigrating the service of all our decent mates.

Let's stick to exposing the liars, frauds and wannabes who denigrate us all.

Administrator.
« Last Edit: Thursday16April2009 by Cassius » Logged

les
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« Reply #105 on: Thursday16April2009 »

80s there must have been something in the water.
Or alternatively these select few peacocks that served with D & E Pl had a hens meeting to discuss their recollections on everyone's service in Vietnam. It appears these battle hardened warriors were battling Dixie's around the various mess halls with Sir William leading the charge.
They were probably taking care of the beer rations and conducting sporting activities that included the egg and spoon race, Who could hold their breath the longest and who was able to talk under water with the most marbles in their mouths. With nighttime activities pondering what came first the chicken or the egg and why am i chewing on my pillow.
It will be interesting to see how all this unfolds.
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80s
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« Reply #104 on: Wednesday15April2009 »


Even the Real D&E Platoon has its fakers (Lionel), what chance does Tates fantasy force stand of conning the defence community.

http://www.anzmi.net/quick/quick.html

80's
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cicero
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« Reply #103 on: Tuesday14April2009 »

More on Tate, from old emails.....see how he attacks those who were in his good books.......

CRUISIN FOR A BRUISIN.......THATS A MISTATE



" Kelly's refusal to answer 5 letters, and half a dozen phone calls over a six-month period from me alone (which he is legally obligated to do,... ) makes him appear either fazed or lazy at best." Don
 
From: Donald Tate
To: Allen J Petersen
Sent: Wednesday, 12 November 2008 5:52 AM
Subject: Re 2nd D&E PLT Farce
 
Allen, the problem is this: The Hon Mike Kelly MP makes a formal announcement about the 2nd D&E Platoon on May 30th this year after receiving a suitcase full of documentation and evidence that proved its existence and what it achieved. These included personal Statements from two officers (Maj Pratt and Lt Parkin)- and all that evidence was placed before the Army History Unit. The Army History analysed the data, did its own validating research, and supported the case for recognition of the platoon and having its position in the history books affirmed. Mr Kelly, himself an ex-officer, a lawyer, and now a politician, made his announcement with all the facts at his fingertips- and would not have come to his conclusions lightly.
 
However, almost immediately, the AWM's clerks and bureaucrats basically overruled him- making him look like a fool. Siding with the AWM, Bob Buick and his pack then also sided with the AWM, and weren't backward in coming forward to make fun of Kelly, and in some instances, vilified him. Kelly's refusal to answer 5 letters, and half a dozen phone calls over a six-month period from me alone (which he is legally obligated to do, and even gets free stamps and a clerk to lick them on for him) makes him appear either fazed or lazy at best.
 
The men from this platoon have never been about hurting the reputation of any officer- but about getting history right. The AWM is all about writing history from the confines of a comfortable desk and plush leather chair- and writing it to give the best impression of the actions of officers. History should not be distorted or fudged in this way. Surely, after all these years, this bloody matter can be cleared up once and for all- and the carpers and knockers sat on their arses.
 
Don Tate
 
From: Bernie McGurgan
To: mike.kelly@alp.org.au
Sent: Wednesday, 12 November 2008 6:11 AM
Subject: 2nd D&E Plt
 
Come on Mike Kelly, I had thought much better of you being an ex Army lawyer, but apparently you are just like all Australian politicians, past, present and future?

 
Your 4.5% majority in Eden-Monaro can very smartly go the other way!

Persevere
Bernie McGurgan
(A Vietnam Veteran & DFRDB superannuate)
195 Redland Bay Rd
CAPALABA QLD 4157
 


"I genuinely thought they (Labor) wouldn't have the arrogance of the Liberals- but in less than a year, they've proved
to be incompetent, secretive, and arrogant.  Don
 
From: Donald Tate
To:  Allen Petersen
Sent: Tuesday, 11 November 2008 4:53 PM
Subject: 2nd D&E Platoon farce
 
If anyone thought that Wayne Swan's performance on inflation and related fiscal matters was farcical- and the fact that government ministers now refuse to respond to emails, let me say, the office of The Hon Mike Kelly's office is a bigger joke.
Following Buick's latest round of comments about the 2nd D&E Platoon matter, I sought clarification from him.
 
To date, I have written four letters to him, and phoned his office on six occasions- and not even a hint of a reply. Today, I phoned again, and got more than a little annoyed to be told that Mark Sjolander (the office manager) was off sick, was told not to "raise my voice" to the lady on the phone (Amy). Every time I have phoned, I've been assured of a reply as soon as Sjolander was "out of a meeting", "back from lunch" or "when he returns from sick leave". RAISE MY VOICE! Why the fu.....wouldn't I?

 
Someone on the web recently asked- who voted for this mob. Well, I did. I genuinely thought they wouldn't have the arrogance of the Liberals- but in less than a year, they've proved to be incompetent, secretive, and arrogant. Mike Kelly is one of those marginal seats. I think he thinks he's safe. I think he needs to reassess his situation.
 
Don Tate
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cicero
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« Reply #102 on: Tuesday14April2009 »

as Anzac Day 2009 is almost upon us, and that day is something special for most of us,  I wonder where TATE will be on that day........probably recovering from the many days on the road with "Tate and his travelling Wannabees".......

Going through my archives today, back as far as 2006, they are some stunning emails penned by Tate, attacking others is the most vile and foul way, for simply asking him to answer simple logical and relevant questions.....

Tate even back then was a foul mouthed viscious prick.....its any wonder he has been flogged by other veterans, and students...if that is correct by previous posts.

Tate's day will come, and come soon.....what a FUXXXWIT




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dodger39
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« Reply #101 on: Tuesday14April2009 »

Fellas,
 
Found this old photo of when I first met Carole.
The plaster prison: from June 1970- about May '71.
Sure made life interesting!

Don Tate
author, "The War Within"

“'The War Within' reminds us that amongst us walk men and women harmed by war’s ravages.” - Mt Buller Times[/i]


Considering that same photo is on his website, he didn't have to look to far to find it.(It was there last year)

http://www.dontate.info/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=1

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Zion
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« Reply #100 on: Tuesday14April2009 »

From: XXXXXXXX
To: 'AUSTRALIAN VETERAN MATTERS'
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 7:51 PM
Subject: RE: MORE ON STUMBLES TATE

I have attached my thoughts on Tate.

If it’s OK distribute far and wide.

XXXX XXXXXX

Let’s Have a Good Look at Don Tate.

In the cold heart of day let’s have a good look at Tate, the undecorated war hero, who abuses all and sundry about their service in Vietnam and the consequences that followed.

For he is, by his own claims, a “super soldier”, better than any SAS patrol member, better than any Jnr or Snr NCO, better than any officer who served in Vietnam.

But with no military qualifications! He attended no courses apart from Recruit and Corps Training, but in his warped mind, he was still better than SAS. He and the  other supernumeraries posted to HQ 1 ATF, were nothing more than replacements waiting to go to the newly arrived Battalions, as and when needed.

After Tate arrived in-country he served with 4RAR for some 6 months, which is good bush time. You can learn a lot in that 6 months! Especially unnatural changes to the vegetation in which you are working which may indicate an enemy presence.

As any Infantry soldier would agree with, regardless of his posting, once you became aware of these unnatural sightings, the hair on the back of his neck would stand up and his heart would start to pump, he knew that the enemy were very close. He would instantly stop the patrol from going any further and he would call the Pl Comd up and show and explain the changes in vegetation and explain what they meant.

That is what a normal Infantry soldier would do and his comments would not be questioned.

“Stumbles” was not a very good soldier as will be confirmed by some of his own statements a bit further down and as we go further it will become evident of how, he utterly failed 7Pl C Coy 9RAR and let them walk into an ambush which he knew was close.

A “Stumbles” quote from his book:

“For over two hours we had struggled our way up the side of a muddy hill, and in closing darkness and with a thunderstorm raging around us, the Viet Cong sprung their ambush.
To this day, the horror of that ambush will wake me at night. Sometimes I wake with a sense of guilt, perhaps not deserved, because I feel I had had enough experience in 4RAR to have realised we were walking into a trap. Sometimes I still see leaves tied together, and tree markings, and exposed fire lanes, and wake up in a sweat wondering why I hadn't said something, why I hadn’t reacted quicker.

At the same time, we were all dog tired. Switched off. Careless.

And suddenly, with an unbelievable roar, the enemy machine guns opened up on us from the front and side. The first section of 7 Platoon were cut to ribbons”. (emphasis added).


Tate wasn’t switched off – he saw the tell tale signs – and shut up!

Careless! Negligent! Yes, as guilty as hell, Tate knew they were close and shut up and by his inaction 7 Pl were decimated!

The Bn soon found out about Tate’s stuff up, big time as it was, the word went out quickly. Is it any wonder that his peers did not want his name included in the Nominal Role of the Bn?

So Tate comes home, hating the world, and has done so ever since.

It is not the world that he hates, it is himself. By his own statements he was a gutless individual before the Army, by allowing 7Pl to walk into an enemy bunker system when he knew they were close, more of a gutless and cowards act.

Ever since he has sought sympathy, from anyone and everyone! Read his bleating of being WIA!

How better to remove the guilt from his inactions and being a prime cause of the casualties inflicted on 7Pl C Coy 9RAR? I’ll make myself a hero! – everyone will agree and I will feel good about myself!

So, D&E platoon comes up many years later and with enough fabricated gloss and magic, Tate and his supernumeraries at HQ 1ATF, Tate invents them all as super soldiers and hero’s, they swallow it up, and in their eyes Tate is a hero. What he had always wanted to be! A hero!

The facts don’t matter to him, the dream does!

So he writes very glamorous descriptions about their supposed activities making the Province safe, according to him, the SAS or the Infantry Bn’s couldn’t but Tate and his cohorts did. Wow!

Tate has blisteringly bagged the SAS patrols due to his superior knowledge of how an Army works, despite the SAS having patrols of between 5 and 10 men. That’s bugger all when bullets start flying and they have to get out on a “hot” extraction. They were always going to be outnumbered!

 But Tate basically describes them as being cowards because the small patrols didn’t stand and fight! If I led a small patrol of that size, I’d be out of there too, and so would every other patrol commander when contacted by a numerically superior force.

This is all from a Pte soldier whom his peers do not have very much to say about his abilities at all.

He’s a hero! Another quote from his book:

“On the day I was wounded I should have been in Bangkok on R and R. But a sense of duty to 'C' Coy who were a little undermanned at the time, and knowing contact with the enemy was imminent, meant I volunteered to stay in the field instead. In retrospect, perhaps it was foolish decision, but a patriotic youth can be forgiven such foolishness.” (Emphasis added)

I’ll bet everyone in 7Pl C Coy wished to Christ he had have been in Bangkok, for very obvious reasons. He states “Contact was imminent” and he went to water!

Tate will never be a hero in anyone’s eye’s, only his own! Simply because he is not and has never been anything than a bumbling and stumbling very inexperienced soldier who did not do his job.

Tate also complains that when 9RAR returned to Brisbane, they did not pay him a visit in hospital.

Tate’s quote:

“I never got a visit from anyone in 9RAR when they came home, even though they returned to my home town- Brisbane. Hadn't really got to know anyone in my three weeks with them, and I guess I was forgotten by the time they’d finished their tour.” (emphasis added).

I would say that 9RAR had very good reasons not to pay a visit, and Mr Tate your decision not to give any warning to 7Pl has never been forgotten. You live in infamy!
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Mowgli
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« Reply #99 on: Tuesday14April2009 »

The snivelling bastard introduces his wife, an innocent, so we’ll leave him alone.   Very bad form displayed by the wannabe. There’s not much man in him, is there!
Mowgli.

From: Donald Tate
To: Bernie ; Allen Petersen
Sent: Monday, 13 April 2009 7:41 AM
Fellas,
 
Found this old photo of when I first met Carole.
The plaster prison: from June 1970- about May '71.
Sure made life interesting!

Don Tate
author, "The War Within"

“'The War Within' reminds us that amongst us walk men and women harmed by war’s ravages.” - Mt Buller Times



* me_in_plaster.jpg (42.15 KB, 522x765 - viewed 997 times.)
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Zion
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« Reply #98 on: Tuesday14April2009 »

From: *********
To: admin@austvetmatters.net
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 6:50 PM
Subject: Don Tate's garden

Hi,

In relation to Don Tate’s garden, with the rock and plaque, that those who were conned into assisting. They finally realised that the whole was only about Tate so they withdrew and went their own way.

Subsequently, following complaints to the DVA investigator’s by an anonymous telephone call, those who gave assistance were subject to allegations which began with: “if you haven’t been wounded by enemy fire, you’re not entitled to TPI:.

Read previous ranting by Tate on this subject, he has made the same statements publicly on several occasions. Allegations were made against these 4 veterans and DVA were bound to investigate potential fraud.

****** was also investigated as ***** knew the investigators when ***** was working for a VV organisation. **** was included because ***** don’t get on with Tate at all. Same thing “haven’t been shot…………..”. The investigator told ***** this because **** asked where did the info come from. That was their reply and **** knew it was Tate. He is known for this statement

I know 4 who assisted Tate and they have no fraudulent background to my knowledge. I know them well.

Tate’s payback came when they wanted nothing more to do with him or his project.

No wonder Tate has no mates, he is an obnoxious arsehole whose whole world revolves solely himself. He’ll use and abuse anyone to suit his own purpose, see the Riddle factuals.

The above is a true record.

Keep up the good work,

*********


From: ******
To: admin@austvetmatters.net
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 7:31 AM
Subject: RE: YOUR FEEDBACK


Hi AVM,

I know Tate, nowhere near being friendly though. I admit to have some sympathy for him being WIA, the same amount as for all of the others WIA.

He has made some very disturbing statements relating to veterans over many years and I have opined that he is one very sick and demented person.

For a Pte soldier with very little service time he is trying to make himself to be authority on the whole war.

I’ll have a look back through the net and see if I can locate some his ridiculous statements from years ago. These may help to show what very little credibility he had then, because in my opinion he has none whatsoever now.

As for being “assault troopers” I’ve wondered if this has any link to the now 4RAR (Commando) Bn, it may have boosted his ego quite a bit.

Don’t let up on this idiot.

Regards,

*******

From: ******
To: admin@austvetmatters.net
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 9:21 AM
Subject: RE: OUR REQUEST

Hi AVM,

Tate was originally from Qld, I don’t know when he went to the Illawarra. It may be on the net somewhere, surely someone with an ego like his would mention it somewhere.

I do recall him getting a bit of a flogging from some Yr 9 or 10 students in a school toilet block. Dapto High from memory.

***************

From: *********
To: admin@austvetmatters.net
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 10:27 AM
Subject: RE:

I believe it was his attitude towards a lot of kids.

I also know parents (Veterans and wives) who refused permission for Tate to teach their kids at Dapto.

I’ve seen his “movies” and to me they appeared to be inside the Dat area and FSB’s..

If I had have kept a diary on Tate it would be full. His reputation in his local area is non-existent.

He even had a shot at **** once and  when ***** fired straight back and tried to put his lights out a couple of vet’s got between **** and Tate cowered down behind them screaming: “don’t hit me, I’m an injured war veteran” a number of times. Those who got between **** were: ****** – A Sqn3 Cav 71 and ******* – 9 Sqn, 2 tours.

***** still laugh about Tate’s reactions still.

********


From: *********
To: admin@austvetmatters.net
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 11:20 AM
Subject: RE:

Hi,

I have copied and pasted some quotes made by Tate in his book. You’ve probably got them, if so, delete it.

**********

PS

Read the lead up to him being shot – he saw all of the signs – and said zero!

TATE QUOTES


For over two hours we had struggled our way up the side of a muddy hill, and in closing darkness and with a thunderstorm raging around us, the Viet Cong sprung their ambush.

To this day, the horror of that ambush will wake me at night. Sometimes I wake with a sense of guilt, perhaps not deserved, because I feel I had had enough experience in 4RAR to have realised we were walking into a trap. Sometimes I still see leaves tied together, and tree markings, and exposed fire lanes, and wake up in a sweat wondering why I hadn't said something, why I hadn’t reacted quicker.



But He wasn’t finished with me yet. On leave from hospital one day, about a year into my recuperation, I attended a twenty-first birthday party, and came across an old enemy from my youth. He was a bikie, and we’d had a run-in a few years earlier when he’d bashed the living daylights out of my father and me over some frivolous matter.

“Hey, sport. Remember me,” I said.

“Yeah, I remember you,” he replied.

“Well I’m not the same man I was a few years ago,” I said, as tough as I could. “I’m not a kid any more. I’ve been to war and back since then. How tough do you think you are now?”

“This tough,” he replied, and without hesitation, smashed his beer glass on the counter, then shoved the jagged remnant of the glass into my throat, missing the jugular by a fraction of an inch.

Talk about luck. It was over in an instant. I never even threw a punch. Rushed to hospital, they added another thirty stitches to my face. I wondered if He had intervened again.


Not long after that I was bashed and robbed whilst marking the School Certificate at Wollongong Public School. Add brain, kidney and liver damage to the list.


But as if by some divine order, the high incidence of trauma accelerated. In 1992, I took a high school girl’s team to Blacktown for the State Softball Championships. That night a masked intruder attempted to force his way into the motel room and I confronted him. He beat me with a steel jimmy bar or tyre lever. That, allied with the fact that he was dressed in black conjured up memories of Vietnam, and coupled with an on-going battle with the recalcitrant administration within the NSW Education Department meant my teaching career was over.

In quick succession, I was attacked with a lump of timber by an ex-student of my school in retaliation for a previous drug bust I’d made, and attacked by a young teenager with a knife for reprimanding him about throwing stones at train passengers.


In 1998, I got into an altercation with a couple of young men trying to bludge money from me, and three hours later was stabbed twice in the back walking down the main street of Brisbane- probably in retaliation for the earliest incident.

Although the knife missed my vital organs, the psychological result was predictable. A year later, I came to the conclusion that life was too precarious, took a pile of pills, made a final phone call, and sat in a park ready to bring it to a close. But the phone call got traced, and an ambulance and police turned up. It wasn’t my time yet
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Fergus Fairfax
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« Reply #97 on: Tuesday14April2009 »

From: Briggsy
To: 'Jim Wiltshire' ; orangeprotest@googlegroups.com
Cc: 'Bob Debus' ; 'Allen Petersen' ; 'Bob Buick' ; 'Kel Ryan' ; 'Bud Cramer' ; 'Keith Tennent' ; 'Angus Houston ACM' ; 'David Hurley LTGEN' ; 'Ken Gillespie LTGEN' ; 'Peter Leahy LTGEN' ; 'Julia.Gillard.MP (Lalor)' ; 'Wayne.Swan.LAB MP. (Lilley. Treasurer)' ; 'Simon Crean.LAB MP (Hotham. Trade)' ; 'Stephen Smith.LAB MP (Perth. Foreign Affairs)' ; 'Joel Fitzgibbon' ; 'Nicola Roxon.LAB MP ((Gellibrand. Health & Ageing' ; 'Peter Garrett.LAB MP (Kingsford Smith. Environmen' ; 'Tony Burke.LAB.MP (Watson.Agriculture,Fisheries&'
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 9:28 PM
Subject: RE: Bob Buick and his ramblings


Don, mate you have achieved not only for yourself and the rest of 2nd D&E but for all diggers that have been overlooked or deliberately pushed out of the picture instead of into it. These are the everyday Australian Digger who forged the ANZAC and Kokoda traditions, those that did the job and only consideration was their mates wellbeing

The show ponies that need medals and unearned respect may be soldiers but are not Diggers, they may be soldiers but mate simply remember their respectability is only for the medals they wear and not for the person wearing them.

You and the lad of 2nd D&E will be remembered for ever more as a very big part of the Australian Digger family because of the dedication you hold for yourselves as well as the traditions it stands for. Don you have shown that you are a man amongst men and will be remembered for that by putting your mates first even though you may not have a shiny medal, you have the gratification of veteran mates and that as you know can only be earned and awarded by those who really count

The respect you wear is true and sincere and not the product of narcotism, so my friend hold your head up and ignore those that choose to knock because you are a true blue Mad galah

Regards Briggsy

PS: Don I am told the best medicine for narcotism is to completely ignore the sufferer


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jim Wiltshire [mailto:tjimw1@iprimus.com.au]
Sent: Tuesday, 3 June 2008 9:11 PM
To: orangeprotest@googlegroups.com
Cc: Bob Debus; Allen Petersen; Bob Buick; Kel Ryan; Bud Cramer; Keith Tennent; Angus Houston ACM; David Hurley LTGEN; Ken Gillespie LTGEN; Peter Leahy LTGEN; Julia.Gillard.MP (Lalor); Wayne.Swan.LAB MP. (Lilley. Treasurer); Simon Crean.LAB MP (Hotham. Trade); Stephen Smith.LAB MP (Perth. Foreign Affairs); Joel Fitzgibbon; Nicola Roxon.LAB MP ((Gellibrand. Health & Ageing; Peter Garrett.LAB MP (Kingsford Smith. Environmen; Tony Burke.LAB.MP (Watson.Agriculture,Fisheries&
Subject: Bob Buick and his ramblings

 

 As Below. And as I have previously stated, many of you have had ample time to have made none of this necessary. The longer you take no action and/or do a 'Pontius Pilate' against the vicious lying cowardly foul-mouths of whom you already know, the further afield these 'MadGalahs' will fly. Don't Look Up.

Jim Wiltshire,

107 Phillips St Wodonga 3690.

02 6024 1079. Or: 0412 161047



-------Original Message-----

 

From:

Date: 3/06/2008 10:23:03 PM

To:Subject: Fwd: Re: Bob Buick

 

The fact that one veteran- Bob Buick continually debunks the 2nd D&E Platoon matter, aggravates me no end. He has attacked me twice since the Press Release by Mike Kelly MP, and forces me to respond. So I forward this small letter on because it is the opinion of one of the most respected (if not the most-respected) senior officers of the Vietnam War- Brigadier George Mansford AM, and HIS opinion counts in the greater scheme of things.

George Mansford does not slink around in the shadows, nor hide behind aliases or false web sites. THIS man never shot a wounded, defenceless enemy soldier after a battle; he never bolted for safety during one; and he never left half his platoon behind not knowing whether or not they were dead or alive. Nor did he ever claim a medal falsely and wear it until he got sprung and was forced to hand it back.

I say again- I really do not wish to be engaged in a continuous, public, verbal exchange with a moron- but it seems I have no choice.

 

Don Tate

Note: forwarded message attached.(below). JW

From: George Mansford

Date: 3/06/2008 1:47:21 PM

To:Subject: Re: Bob Buick
 

Don, good to hear from you. I anticipated you would not take flak from any source including old opponents. In truth, the fact there were other points of view from other Vets has perhaps even highlighted the confusion and dense fog that blanketed your identity and deeds and thus isolated and subsequently denied the platoon from existence and its deserved recognition.

I thought I had communicated congrats but very busy of late and it must have slipped my mind. I was of course delighted to hear of the results. It continues to reinforce the belief that the system best not stuff around with Aussie diggers. I do hope that unlike many lessons from yesterday the system never forgets this terrible flaw, nor indeed the injustice of it all.  It is true to say that because of your moral courage and determination to see justice for you and your mates there is much that can be prevented to ensure young diggers of today and tomorrow are not exposed to the same humiliation and mental torment. You have every reason to be proud of your fight and the subsequent victory. I do hope that you can now put it all behind you and catch up on life with your wife and family and share there warmth and cameraderie with all who wore the uniform. Given your ability at writing perhaps you may even pursue another book.  I have asked a mate by the name of John Blake to attend your lunch and am awaiting a reply. He too is ex army and was very much a rebel as a Lt/Capt before he said enough is enough. Apart from the odd haemorhhaging of my eye (because I am not following the rules) I am quite OK and am about to fly out to Canberra to speak with the next graduating class from RMC about soldiering and their  responsibilities for those they will command. l will of course be alert for any potential young granny that just might walk into my killing ground. Have a memorable book launch and try and ignore any shells going overhead. I will be thinking of you and all the other young blokes, regulars and nashos who made our country proud with their service in Vietnam, and for old b...s such as me who were also very honoured to have served alongside them. .  Take care   

----- Original Message -----

From:To: George Mansford

Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 9:29 AM

Subject: Bob Buick

 

G'day George

Mate, I'm sorry if I let you down with my outbursts against Buick- but that man really does press my buttons! Trust you are well- and what about that victory last week, he? It's what happens when good men like yourself have a quiet word in the channels of power, I reckon.
Kind Regards, Don Tate
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Zion
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« Reply #96 on: Monday13April2009 »

Dear members,

From now on please refrain from any mention of Jim Riddle UNLESS the data has a direct connection to the Tate/D&E Pl matter and is necessary to explain the Tate/D&E Pl matter.

We don't want to end up like the mad hatters over at mad galah conspiracy central.

Riddle is firmly esconced in the UK and will never ever return to Australia. It's the sickos and frauds in the mad galahs who live in Australia NOW that we need to expose and target.

YOURS...AVM FORUM MODERATOR.
« Last Edit: Monday13April2009 by Cassius » Logged

Mowgli
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« Reply #95 on: Monday13April2009 »

I would not be the slightest bit surprised if we found this is how Tate and his inept mob of researchers put Peter Turner in Infantry and in particular, D&E PL.

http://www.hq1atf.org/
Click on Recollections
Click on 
Michael Turner - A Short Tour

Mowgli.
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cavman
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« Reply #94 on: Monday13April2009 »

In order to shed further light on the Peter Turner issue, in addition to the Peter Turner (RAAC, NS) discussed above,
here are the other Peter Turners (Army) listed on the VVNR. 
The last Turner (Track), did his tour as a Cpl APC Crew Commander, C/S 12B.
He has been known to me for 39 years.

Turner, Peter James, Catering Corps, 6 RAR 1969-70. (NS)
Turner ,Peter John, RA Inf, 5 RAR 1969-70. (ARA)
Turner, Peter Leslie, RAA, 4 Fd Regt, 1970-1970. (ARA)
Turner, Peter William (“Track”), RAAC, B Sqn 3 Cav Regt Oct 70- Jan 71,
A Sqn 3 Cav Regt Jan 71 – Mar 72. (ARA)
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Mowgli
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« Reply #93 on: Monday13April2009 »

Does anyone doubt that Tate spent the greater majority of his tour behind the wire?
Does anyone doubt that when he made 2 x 1 month excursions outside the Dat wire to behind the Horseshoe wire he had his head up his arse?
For those of you familiar with Infantry platoons of the day, see bold.

From: Donald Tate
To: Allen Petersen
Sent: Sunday, 12 April 2009 5:50 AM
Subject: Peter Turner and the REAL D&E Platoon

In reacting to the attacks by Peter Turner (who claims to have been a member of the real D&E Platoon) I made remarks about that other platoon that might have been disparaging.
I apologise for that- I was really taking aim at this Turner bloke who claims he carried the M60 in that platoon. (We're still checking the Rolls, and are yet to find him anywhere in any D&E Platoon.)


Should Peter Turner have been an Infantryman in D&E and not a Cavalryman, he would not have carried "The M60"

I was sent some early-mid 1971 D&E photos. The sender says that they should not be viewed as indicative of how many guns D&E carried at any given point in time before 1971. The extras could have been 8RAR leftovers. Prior, there should have been a minimum of three and that's two more than Tate thinks D&E carried. The 10 Rifles photo is shy a further 12-15 rifles or so.

The men in the photos were also on the receiving end of the Tate "dined out" insult.

Everything I see indicates the 4 RAR transfer group were sitting and waiting for postings when one day, one section, with the one and only available M60, went bush with CAV for 8 or 9 days.  Ted Colmer, gunner (believed dec) Tate, Bigwood, Lloyd-Thomas and 1202112  Enright at Nui Dat.

Mowgli.


* DE_GUNS_6.jpg (248.73 KB, 806x542 - viewed 1014 times.)

* DE_RIFLES_10.jpg (244.87 KB, 806x542 - viewed 1153 times.)
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Savage1
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« Reply #92 on: Monday13April2009 »

For too long veterans who were at Thua Tich and Xuyen Moc are getting sick of the liars being spread by Tate and his book.  It is interesting that Tate maybe reading this forum.  So, if that is the case Don one day at one these guest speaking roles you may come face to face with these vets.  You may suggest that your wife stays home as she may not wish to be embrassed.

I think the time has come that we all stand up for what is the truth and front Tate at his speaking roles to put him down and out for good.
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cavman
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« Reply #91 on: Monday13April2009 »

In support of Peter Turner's rebuttal of having anything to do with D&E Pl and Tate:

TURNER, Peter Edward 3787191 RAAC

1 APC Sqn 25/5/66 – 15/1/67
A Sqn 3 Cav Regt 16/1/67 – 27/2/67
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Mowgli
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« Reply #90 on: Monday13April2009 »

Speaking of major wannabes, conmen, liars, ignorant bullying bastards and ambushes.

Tate's Sabre Force video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxjxQleQjHs

Tate at minute 3:03
"I was the machine gunner with Kevin Lloyd-Thomas' section............" (it gets worse)

Don Tate was not in the AO.

Mowgli

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Mowgli
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« Reply #89 on: Monday13April2009 »

Speaking of ambushes and wannabes.

Tate's Sabre Force video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxjxQleQjHs

Kevin Lloyd-Thomas said at minute 2:10
"Our section was pouring,      pouring fire into the killing area of the ambush,   ummmm,   tch"  (heavy sigh)

Adam Rainford should have torn up Kevin's  Actors Equity card.

Kevin Lloyd-Thomas, just like "Barney" Bigwood, wasn't at Thua Tich or Route 328 either.

Mowgli

« Last Edit: Monday13April2009 by Mowgli » Logged
Mowgli
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« Reply #88 on: Monday13April2009 »

Speaking of M60s, which self-proclaimed D&E - 9RAR gunner Tate says one was carried per PL.

From: Richard Bigwood [mailto:ricb@bigpond.net.au]
Sent: Sunday, 4 March 2007 9:06 AM
To: Dennis Manski; Barry Corse; 'Jim Riddle'; rainingfilms@yahoo.com.au; 'Don Tate'; 'Ian Morrison'; 'South Georgia Lodge'
Cc: 'Don Dennis'; 'tony white'; 'Bernie'; 'Dave Briggs'; 'Owen Eather'
Subject: Re: Sabre 2 2nd D&E platoon Vietnam
 
Photographs from Christopher Bellis "army"newspaper are AWM collections photographs.
BEL/69/0351/VN ,  0354/VN,0377/VN,0364/VN,0378/VN,0372/vn,0370/VN.

Photo351 shows Trooper Phil Hoganin the APC that was hit by the RPG it glanced off as he executed the ambush drill and we turned into the scrub. You will also see that thewhip aerial is missing I shot it off with my M60 as we were tossed around going into the bush.


Ted Colmer was the section gunner, Bigwood was not.  D&E were inside one APC during the Route 328 VC ambush, no shots were fired.  Bigwood was not there, just as he wasn’t at Thua Tich the night before.

Mowgli.



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Mowgli
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« Reply #87 on: Sunday12April2009 »

TATE obviously reads these posts:

If you read Sandy Pearsons' letter to him, Tate has taken out of context what Pearson has said....again this FWIT distorts words to suit his agenda......


Dear Cicero.
If the letter you refer to is this, that was supposedly written by Gen Pearson, I suggest it's no more than Tate's imagination working overtime, again.
I was typed out in an email, exactly as you see it here. No separate attached .doc, no nothing.
Mowgli.

"Dear Don,
          I am writing to set out the results of my enquiries of the employment of the D&E Platoon during the period you and your colleagues served in that organization.
          The D&E Platoon as you are aware was part of the establishment of HQ 1ATF and had a role to protect the Task Force HQ and undertook duties as directed.
          From time to time the platoon was used to carry soldiers who, for whatever reason had not completed a tour of duty with their parent unit and were awaiting reposting. Such soldiers were supernumeraries to the Platoon’s establishment. All were experienced and trained soldiers.
          This was normal practice. As the Platoon would have been overstrength because of this practice at the time you were in the platoon, I understand the additional men came to be referred to informally as the “2nd D&E Platoon.” I have no recollection of this nor does my then Operations Major. Whatever, I do not believe there was any such typical designation at that time.
          Notwithstanding, the additional D&E elements were used in operations against the enemy as you would expect and know.
          I would have to say that such operations were routine and in no way special.
          The group who were unofficially termed the ‘2nd D&E Platoon” did conduct themselves with distinction when used with a Cavalry Troop (the modern term would be “assault troopers”) in the Xuyen Moc area in late May 1969. This was, to their credit a most successful operation under the Cavalry commander, Captain Arrowsmith. I understand he was recognized for his command in this action.
          Both Veteran Affairs and Australian War Memorial are aware of this letter.
Yours Sincerely
(signed)
Major General C.M.I. Pearson AO, DSO,OBE, MC (ret)
"
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80s
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« Reply #86 on: Sunday12April2009 »

Lets keep it real, Riddle was still a big mouth at Angus House and he is not blameless in this whole affair. Lets hope the smack in the mouth knocked some sense into him. Should be more of it.
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cicero
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« Reply #85 on: Sunday12April2009 »


TATE obviously reads these posts:

Tate is the distorter of facts, evidence and anything else that promotes his theory......he HAS NOT presented one item of substantive evidence to support his claim of the 2nd D & E.......even his mate, "angry COLMER", is unable and unwilling to present the same material that was presented to the AHI and those politicians.......

and I TRUST that the AWM in the next history, currently being finalised, does NOT acknowledge the existence of the SABRE PHANTOM Second D & E.....I believe they will be more circumspect and rely on facts, paper records and official documents.

If you read Sandy Pearsons' letter to him, Tate has taken out of context what Pearson has said....again this FWIT distorts words to suit his agenda......

Again I challenge TATE, COLMER and anyone else to present the same evidence to the veteran community that you so fondly sucked George and Kelly with.......give us all the same opportunity.......

I, and many others, will never accept what you TATE present......your evidence and facts and rationale is false, unproven and unacceptable......and effing unreliable.......you have been exposed by Mowgli and many others......





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Fergus Fairfax
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« Reply #84 on: Sunday12April2009 »

Tate is a sickening, nasty vicious excuse for a Veteran who will attack, defame and abuse anybody....that's anybody , just to get what he wants. Tate desperately wants money and fame, and more of it, even though he has wasted hundreds of thousands on gambling.

Nobody is off limits to him and no lies are too big for him.

It's well past time all decent Veterans and ESOs stood up to him and the other mad galah wannabes who peddle his fraud.

Tate has a reputation as an " idiot" by his local Police. That is the exact word they used to describe him when they were contacted by a Veteran some time ago.

He does things in his own community like causing disruptions in banks and refusing to leave and letting down car tyres because people park in the wrong spot. When Police have gone to his house they too have copped his threats to sue them. They don't like him!

This dude has a vile, filthy mouth and is a bully. Like all bullies he would run for the hills if he was confronted one on one.

His madness and sick mind are no excuse for his wanton, stupid and vile behaviour, even though the mad galahs and their few supporters claim all mad galahs are simply sick and should be ignored.

Nobody has to ignore the personal vicious attacks levelled at them by Tate and the mad galahs.

There is NO excuse for unacceptable, anti social and vile behaviour by Tate or anybody else. We cannot wear our PTSD as a medal and use it to excuse his type of behaviour.

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Tooligie
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« Reply #83 on: Sunday12April2009 »

I am glad to see that Jim Riddle is finally off the agenda... the fact is that Jim is a sick man who through many years of active service in places like Aden,Sarawak,Malaya and South Vietnam has experienced things that have affected his health and mind, and consequently his judgement on some important issues that changed his life.
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Boots
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« Reply #82 on: Sunday12April2009 »

This Tate is Effing a Madman.

Never, ever, anywhere have I stated I was a member of his mythical 2nd D&E platoon.

I am a Cav man through & through.

Jeez, this guy is a total & utter lying despicable piece of shite who must get his rocks off by sending lies about anywbody who can see thru his fairy tales.

Peter Turner
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Mowgli
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« Reply #81 on: Sunday12April2009 »

From: warvet_69@yahoo.com
To: Allen Petersen
Sent: Saturday, 11 April 2009 9:05 PM
Subject: Peter Turner/ Bud Cramer: AVM cohorts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

But since you entered the fray, and mentioned 'dixie-bashing', I think it's also worth noting Major George Pratt's response when asked about the make up of D&E Platoons. (Pratt was OC HQ Coy 1ATF 1968-69).
He said:
 
"D&E Platoons were made up of riflemen not suited to being in the jungle- and were better suited to 'dixie-bashing'".

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This is obviously just another standard insult from the wannabe.

Maj Pratt is believed deceased, we would appreciate a YOD if so.

Mowgli.
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Mowgli
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« Reply #80 on: Sunday12April2009 »

Tate. March 07
It would appear that the "official' platoon has dined out on the exploits of the 'second" D@E Platoon for the last time”


From: Donald Tate
To: Allen Petersen
Sent: Sunday, 12 April 2009 5:50 AM
Subject: Peter Turner and the REAL D&E Platoon

In reacting to the attacks by Peter Turner (who claims to have been a member of the real D&E Platoon) I made remarks about that other platoon that might have been disparaging.
I apologise for that- I was really taking aim at this Turner bloke who claims he carried the M60 in that platoon. (We're still checking the Rolls, and are yet to find him anywhere in any D&E Platoon.)
In fact, the D&E Platoon of 1969 was an excellent platoon of men from all accounts, and capable led by Lt Ray Woolan. They were not found wanting in any instance.
However, given the fact that were an excellent platoon with a sound leader, the question remains- why wasn't that platoon used in the Xuyen Moc area instead of the "2nd D&E Platoon"?
It's a simple question.
Don Tate
Don Tate
author, "The War Within"


"the question remains- why wasn't that platoon used in the Xuyen Moc area instead of the "2nd D&E Platoon"?
They were working in other AOs W of ATF.

Mowgli.

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Mowgli
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« Reply #79 on: Sunday12April2009 »

" personal letter written by Major-General C.M.I. Pearson AO, DSO, OBE, MC (Ret)"

From: Don Tate
Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2007 1:30 PM
To: 'Barry Corse'
Subject: PEARSON- DE (2).doc

First up, and let me spell it out for you both, since you're obviously way behind with the news- the 2nd D&E Platoon HAS been formally recognised by the government. This occurred last year- May 29th, in fact. It was big news there for a while.

I even have a personal letter written by Major-General C.M.I. Pearson AO, DSO, OBE, MC (Ret). I met with him on three occasions, along with Ted Colmer, Barney Bigwood, and Kevin Lloyd-Thomas- the other 'fairies' you speak of. I have never released this letter before, but it seems appropriate now. I think most veterans will find it very interesting. In that letter, Maj-Gen Pearson states:

"The group who were unofficially termed the '2nd D&E Platoon' did conduct themselves with distinction when used with a cavalry troop (the modern term would be "assault troopers") in the Xuyen Moc area in late May 1969. This was, to their credit, a most successful operation....."

He then goes on to advise that both the DVA and the AWM "ARE AWARE OF THIS LETTER".

What Pearson has done here, is acknowledge the existence of a disparate "platoon" (HIS WORDS) and notes that it was "unofficially" termed the "2nd D&E Platoon."

(He was obviously aware of the reference!)

This letter from the CO of the Task Force in 1969, satisfies two things:

- first, that the "platoon" existed as such, and was NOT a "rifle section" as General Gower called it - and secondly, that it was given an "unofficial" title- "2nd D&E Platoon".....the fact that he acknowledges the term at all, reinforces our simple belief that others were also aware of the term at the time. Why would we question it?

So the decision to formally acknowledge the platoon was made by the government only after very careful consideration of the letter from Maj-Gen Pearson and the facts provided by Ted Colmer- some 200 pages of documentation, military reports, topographical maps, and other materials. It all went to the Army History Unit.
That information was then pored over by military brass, bureaucrats, and politicians- and after months of analysis, they came to the definite conclusion that a separate D&E Platoon DID exist from the formal one in May 1969, and operated for up to six weeks, independent of the REAL D&E Platoon.

Fait accompli!
No argument!

The "letter"
Tate's subject line indicates a ".doc" of some description but he still typed out the "letter from Gen Pearson" This is a Tate letter, not a Pearson Letter.


From: Don Tate
Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2007 1:30 PM
To: 'Barry Corse'
Subject: PEARSON- DE (2).doc

I received this letter today- from Brigadier ‘Sandy’ Pearson, dated 13th November 2007- a response to our request to explain why the 2nd D&E Platoon is missing from historical records of the day.

Dear Don,
          I am writing to set out the results of my enquiries of the employment of the D&E Platoon during the period you and your colleagues served in that organization.
          The D&E Platoon as you are aware was part of the establishment of HQ 1ATF and had a role to protect the Task Force HQ and undertook duties as directed.
          From time to time the platoon was used to carry soldiers who, for whatever reason had not completed a tour of duty with their parent unit and were awaiting reposting. Such soldiers were supernumeraries to the Platoon’s establishment. All were experienced and trained soldiers.
          This was normal practice. As the Platoon would have been overstrength because of this practice at the time you were in the platoon, I understand the additional men came to be referred to informally as the “2nd D&E Platoon.” I have no recollection of this nor does my then Operations Major. Whatever, I do not believe there was any such typical designation at that time.
          Notwithstanding, the additional D&E elements were used in operations against the enemy as you would expect and know.
          I would have to say that such operations were routine and in no way special.
          The group who were unofficially termed the ‘2nd D&E Platoon” did conduct themselves with distinction when used with a Cavalry Troop (the modern term would be “assault troopers”) in the Xuyen Moc area in late May 1969. This was, to their credit a most successful operation under the Cavalry commander, Captain Arrowsmith. I understand he was recognized for his command in this action.
          Both Veteran Affairs and Australian War Memorial are aware of this letter.
Yours Sincerely
(signed)
Major General C.M.I. Pearson AO, DSO,OBE, MC (ret)

So where does this leave us?

What the Brigadier has acknowledged:
•   that the platoon DID exist in the manner have always said
•   that the platoon operated as “assault troopers”
•   that they operated in the Xuyen Moc area in late 1969
•   that the platoon (and not combined cavalry/infantry force) operated “with distinction”

What the Brigadier has not acknowledged:
•   how could this platoon have operated in this matter when the Minister for Veterans Affairs clearly states in his letter of August 2007: “there was no authority to raise a second D&E Platoon”?
•   that a Private soldier, Jim Riddle, led the infantry platoon, with even greater distinction than Captain Arrowsmith
•   why a platoon that operated with “distinction” was so rapidly dispersed after the events of May
•   what happened to the bodies after the battle of Thua Thich?

I’m sure others have more questions to add.
***




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Mowgli
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« Reply #78 on: Sunday12April2009 »

My comments within.
Mowgli.


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Allen Petersen <petersaj@bigpond.net.au>
Date: 2009/4/11
Subject: Fw: Peter Turner/ Bud Cramer: AVM cohorts
To: Bud Cramer <>


From: warvet_69@yahoo.com
To: Allen Petersen
Sent: Saturday, 11 April 2009 9:05 PM
Subject: Peter Turner/ Bud Cramer: AVM cohorts


Memo to: Peter 'Boots' Turner ; and Bud Cramer.....

Gentlemen,
In a world where families have recently burned to death, and others buried beneath earthqualke rubble, the fact that there are men like you, so small-minded that they have to concern themselves with one minor aspect of the Vietnam War that never concerned them, amazes me.

Obviously you are men with little lives. Men with nothing better to do than attempt to bring others down, or drive them to distraction. And for what reward? The applause of who?

And I find it interesting that you do not go after any man of substance- like 'heroes' or generals where there are question marks about their service, or the medals they wear. No sir- they're a bit scary aren't they? Best you concentrate on smaller game.
Not that you worry me too much. Like mosquitoes, buzzing around.

Actually, I have a laugh at times at some of the crap you come up with. But I do find your constant criticisms of me and others involved in the whole 2nd D&E Platoon matter quite tiresome, and while I'm loathe to respond to your ramblings, I think your last efforts deserve a word or two. I trust you got a nod of approval from your puppet masters? Got a tick from them? Made yourselves big men in their eyes? Feel good about yourselves doing their dirty work?

I'd rather not bother responding because I've got a large family to attend to, but there are a few comments from both of you I thought need some comment and clarification.

First up, and let me spell it out for you both, since you're obviously way behind with the news- the 2nd D&E Platoon HAS been formally recognised by the government. This occurred last year- May 29th, in fact. It was big news there for a while.

I even have a personal letter written by Major-General C.M.I. Pearson AO, DSO, OBE, MC (Ret). I met with him on three occasions, along with Ted Colmer, Barney Bigwood, and Kevin Lloyd-Thomas- the other 'fairies' you speak of. I have never released this letter before, but it seems appropriate now. I think most veterans will find it very interesting. In that letter, Maj-Gen Pearson states:

Mowgli: This is actually a Tate written "supposed letter”. I’ll post it separately.

"The group who were unofficially termed the '2nd D&E Platoon' did conduct themselves with distinction when used with a cavalry troop (the modern term would be "assault troopers") in the Xuyen Moc area in late May 1969. This was, to their credit, a most successful operation....."

He then goes on to advise that both the DVA and the AWM "ARE AWARE OF THIS LETTER".

What Pearson has done here, is acknowledge the existence of a disparate "platoon" (HIS WORDS) and notes that it was "unofficially" termed the "2nd D&E Platoon."

(He was obviously aware of the reference!)

This letter from the CO of the Task Force in 1969, satisfies two things:

- first, that the "platoon" existed as such, and was NOT a "rifle section" as General Gower called it - and secondly, that it was given an "unofficial" title- "2nd D&E Platoon".....the fact that he acknowledges the term at all, reinforces our simple belief that others were also aware of the term at the time. Why would we question it?

So the decision to formally acknowledge the platoon was made by the government only after very careful consideration of the letter from Maj-Gen Pearson and the facts provided by Ted Colmer- some 200 pages of documentation, military reports, topographical maps, and other materials. It all went to the Army History Unit.
That information was then pored over by military brass, bureaucrats, and politicians- and after months of analysis, they came to the definite conclusion that a separate D&E Platoon DID exist from the formal one in May 1969, and operated for up to six weeks, independent of the REAL D&E Platoon.

Fait accompli!
No argument!

And despite the pathetic arguments blokes like you raise, and despite the protestations of the anonymous heroes at Cowards' Castle, that decision will not be reversed. Simply- unlike the 'documentation' you present, Colmer's research was meticulous and unambiguous- AND left no stone unturned. What's more, he and I and 37 other good men were actually in THAT platoon, and you weren't.

So I won't bother too much with your silly comments and 'proof'- instead, I'll take one point and show you how wrong you are- and how ridiculous you look in presenting it.

Peter Turner (who purports to be a member of the REAL GENUINE D&E Platoon, only I can't find his name on the HQ Coy Roll!!!!) states that "on the road to Xuyen Moc..(the infantry) didn't fire a shot. Nil KIA."

Mowgli: Peter Turner is correct. D&E were riding  inside a single APC. Didn’t fire a shot. Didn’t get out of the APC until time to collect en weapons, gear.



Whereas, in actual fact, there IS a picture of Cpl Len Ellecombe (a section-commander in the 2nd D&E Platoon) standing on the back of an APC firing one-handed, and in the process of despatching two VC himself. That picture is in the AWM collection, and was presented two years ago as definite proof of the 2nd D&E's existence- simply because Ellecombe NEVER set foot in Woolan's platoon. It was one of many such photos.


Mowgli: AWM collection photos.  BEL/69/0353/VN  BEL/69/0354/VN  BEL/69/0354A/VN  BEL/69/0355/VN  Any fool could see that these were “after action” photos.
Tate’s words reinforce my position that Tate et al monkeyed with AWM photo captions. Now I have the year, I thought it could have been earlier than 2007.

“That picture is in the AWM collection, and was presented two years ago as definite proof of the 2nd D&E's existence”

Makes YOU look rather stupid Turner, doesn't it?

But since you entered the fray, and mentioned 'dixie-bashing', I think it's also worth noting Major George Pratt's response when asked about the make up of D&E Platoons. (Pratt was OC HQ Coy 1ATF 1968-69).

He said:

"D&E Platoons were made up of riflemen not suited to being in the jungle- and were better suited to 'dixie-bashing'".

And after the 2nd D&E Platoon was disbanded, most of us went to other battalions- while others, like Ted Colmer were actually used to beef up the REAL D&E Platoon. Obviously you weren't doing your job, Turner, and needed a real gunner to show you the ropes.

And since you've put your head up now, as a representative of the REAL, GENUINE D&E Platoon,  a more important question must be asked:

WHY WAS IT THAT THE RAG-TAG PLATOON MADE UP OF 4 RAR REGULARS WAS SENT OUT AGAINST A KNOWN LARGE, ENEMY FORCE- while the REAL D&E Platoon (comprising blokes like you, Turner, apparently) wasn't?

I mean, let's look at the situation logically....On the one hand, there existed a fully-outfitted D&E Platoon platoon with a genuine platoon commander (Woolan); and on the other, a hastily-organised platoon of 39 regular soldiers under a Corporal, awaiting re-posting. This second group had no officer in charge, didn't even have bedding, and Cpl Riddle had to battle to score M60's for it.

So- why wasn't the REAL, GENUINE D&E Platoon used to tackle the 800+ Viet Cong known to be roaming around Xuyen Moc?

I don't know the answer myself.

Perhaps there are those who do?

Mowgli: 33rd NVA Regt was gathering elements at Binh Ba. D&E there supporting Tanks (leading to Battle of Binh Ba 6 June 69)  A 50 strong VC weapons and med-supplies transport unit was “tackled” by 2 Tp Cav and Infantry at Thua Tich, 29 May.

It might have something to do with 'dixie-bashing'.

One thing I know for sure- I never washed a plate in Vietnam, nor served in the mess. Never did guard duty in Saigon either, as far as I recall.

Oh...and the comment about the movies.....does that bother you, Turner? Tough luck mate. After all, I was just a dumb, stumbling private who happened to take a movie camera to Vietnam with me, and managed to record images that were described by the valuer AS " the equal of Damien Parer's" (that's a pretty good rap, isn't it?)

And do you know what- those other men whose images I captured of them in their prime, including those who were subsequently wounded, or who have died since, will live forever as a consequence.

Mowgli: “managed to record images that were described by the valuer AS " the equal of Damien Parer's"
Tate's Parer-esque images captured 11PL 4RAR men and displays them as 10PL men to marry up with his “collected body parts” lies.


It's not a bad legacy I've left.

March 07 "It would appear that the "official' platoon has dined out on the exploits of the 'second" D@E Platoon for the last time"

Have you left anything of value?

Don Tate
 
Don Tate
author, "The War Within"
« Last Edit: Sunday12April2009 by Mowgli » Logged
Zion
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« Reply #77 on: Sunday12April2009 »

Fellow subscribers,

Admin has received the following. Tate is not going to go away unless we force him to go away.

The way to do that is to shame him in your ESOs and Associations, write/email to the libraries where he is due to speak , email the AWM and object to his book and films and anything from him being held at the AWM alongside our mates, dads and granddads who really did suffer, do the hard yards and die and email Murdoch books to let them know your feelings about them publishing Tates book which demeans us all.

My uncle and mate have their names on the AWM Wall of Remembrance and I don't want Tates shit anywhere near them.

When you read the following don't let Tates alluring words fool you....he is a liar and master conman.


From: **************
To: admin
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 2:46 PM
Subject: Fwd: Fw: Peter Turner/ Bud Cramer: AVM cohorts


Attention Mowgli.


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Allen Petersen <petersaj@bigpond.net.au>
Date: 2009/4/11
Subject: Fw: Peter Turner/ Bud Cramer: AVM cohorts
To: Bud Cramer

From: warvet_69@yahoo.com
To: Allen Petersen
Sent: Saturday, 11 April 2009 9:05 PM
Subject: Peter Turner/ Bud Cramer: AVM cohorts


Memo to: Peter 'Boots' Turner ; and Bud Cramer.....

Gentlemen,
In a world where families have recently burned to death, and others buried beneath earthqualke rubble, the fact that there are men like you, so small-minded that they have to concern themselves with one minor aspect of the Vietnam War that never concerned them, amazes me.

Obviously you are men with little lives. Men with nothing better to do than attempt to bring others down, or drive them to distraction. And for what reward? The applause of who?

And I find it interesting that you do not go after any man of substance- like 'heroes' or generals where there are question marks about their service, or the medals they wear. No sir- they're a bit scary aren't they? Best you concentrate on smaller game.
Not that you worry me too much. Like mosquitoes, buzzing around.

Actually, I have a laugh at times at some of the crap you come up with. But I do find your constant criticisms of me and others involved in the whole 2nd D&E Platoon matter quite tiresome, and while I'm loathe to respond to your ramblings, I think your last efforts deserve a word or two. I trust you got a nod of approval from your puppet masters? Got a tick from them? Made yourselves big men in their eyes? Feel good about yourselves doing their dirty work?

I'd rather not bother responding because I've got a large family to attend to, but there are a few comments from both of you I thought need some comment and clarification.

First up, and let me spell it out for you both, since you're obviously way behind with the news- the 2nd D&E Platoon HAS been formally recognised by the government. This occurred last year- May 29th, in fact. It was big news there for a while.

I even have a personal letter written by Major-General C.M.I. Pearson AO, DSO, OBE, MC (Ret). I met with him on three occasions, along with Ted Colmer, Barney Bigwood, and Kevin Lloyd-Thomas- the other 'fairies' you speak of. I have never released this letter before, but it seems appropriate now. I think most veterans will find it very interesting. In that letter, Maj-Gen Pearson states:

"The group who were unofficially termed the '2nd D&E Platoon' did conduct themselves with distinction when used with a cavalry troop (the modern term would be "assault troopers") in the Xuyen Moc area in late May 1969. This was, to their credit, a most successful operation....."

He then goes on to advise that both the DVA and the AWM "ARE AWARE OF THIS LETTER".

What Pearson has done here, is acknowledge the existence of a disparate "platoon" (HIS WORDS) and notes that it was "unofficially" termed the "2nd D&E Platoon."

(He was obviously aware of the reference!)

This letter from the CO of the Task Force in 1969, satisfies two things:

- first, that the "platoon" existed as such, and was NOT a "rifle section" as General Gower called it - and secondly, that it was given an "unofficial" title- "2nd D&E Platoon".....the fact that he acknowledges the term at all, reinforces our simple belief that others were also aware of the term at the time. Why would we question it?

So the decision to formally acknowledge the platoon was made by the government only after very careful consideration of the letter from Maj-Gen Pearson and the facts provided by Ted Colmer- some 200 pages of documentation, military reports, topographical maps, and other materials. It all went to the Army History Unit.
That information was then pored over by military brass, bureaucrats, and politicians- and after months of analysis, they came to the definite conclusion that a separate D&E Platoon DID exist from the formal one in May 1969, and operated for up to six weeks, independent of the REAL D&E Platoon.

Fait accompli!
No argument!

And despite the pathetic arguments blokes like you raise, and despite the protestations of the anonymous heroes at Cowards' Castle, that decision will not be reversed. Simply- unlike the 'documentation' you present, Colmer's research was meticulous and unambiguous- AND left no stone unturned. What's more, he and I and 37 other good men were actually in THAT platoon, and you weren't.

So I won't bother too much with your silly comments and 'proof'- instead, I'll take one point and show you how wrong you are- and how ridiculous you look in presenting it.

Peter Turner (who purports to be a member of the REAL GENUINE D&E Platoon, only I can't find his name on the HQ Coy Roll!!!!) states that "on the road to Xuyen Moc..(the infantry) didn't fire a shot. Nil KIA."

Whereas, in actual fact, there IS a picture of Cpl Len Ellecombe (a section-commander in the 2nd D&E Platoon) standing on the back of an APC firing one-handed, and in the process of despatching two VC himself. That picture is in the AWM collection, and was presented two years ago as definite proof of the 2nd D&E's existence- simply because Ellecombe NEVER set foot in Woolan's platoon. It was one of many such photos.

Makes YOU look rather stupid Turner, doesn't it?

But since you entered the fray, and mentioned 'dixie-bashing', I think it's also worth noting Major George Pratt's response when asked about the make up of D&E Platoons. (Pratt was OC HQ Coy 1ATF 1968-69).

He said:

"D&E Platoons were made up of riflemen not suited to being in the jungle- and were better suited to 'dixie-bashing'".

And after the 2nd D&E Platoon was disbanded, most of us went to other battalions- while others, like Ted Colmer were actually used to beef up the REAL D&E Platoon. Obviously you weren't doing your job, Turner, and needed a real gunner to show you the ropes.

And since you've put your head up now, as a representative of the REAL, GENUINE D&E Platoon,  a more important question must be asked:

WHY WAS IT THAT THE RAG-TAG PLATOON MADE UP OF 4 RAR REGULARS WAS SENT OUT AGAINST A KNOWN LARGE, ENEMY FORCE- while the REAL D&E Platoon (comprising blokes like you, Turner, apparently) wasn't?

I mean, let's look at the situation logically....On the one hand, there existed a fully-outfitted D&E Platoon platoon with a genuine platoon commander (Woolan); and on the other, a hastily-organised platoon of 39 regular soldiers under a Corporal, awaiting re-posting. This second group had no officer in charge, didn't even have bedding, and Cpl Riddle had to battle to score M60's for it.

So- why wasn't the REAL, GENUINE D&E Platoon used to tackle the 800+ Viet Cong known to be roaming around Xuyen Moc?

I don't know the answer myself.

Perhaps there are those who do?

It might have something to do with 'dixie-bashing'.

One thing I know for sure- I never washed a plate in Vietnam, nor served in the mess. Never did guard duty in Saigon either, as far as I recall.

Oh...and the comment about the movies.....does that bother you, Turner? Tough luck mate. After all, I was just a dumb, stumbling private who happened to take a movie camera to Vietnam with me, and managed to record images that were described by the valuer AS " the equal of Damien Parer's" (that's a pretty good rap, isn't it?)

And do you know what- those other men whose images I captured of them in their prime, including those who were subsequently wounded, or who have died since, will live forever as a consequence.

It's not a bad legacy I've left.

Have you left anything of value?

Don Tate
 
Don Tate
author, "The War Within"

-----------------
From: *************
To: admin
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 2:47 PM
Subject: Fwd: Fw: Peter Turner and the REAL D&E Platoon


Attention Mowgli.


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Allen Petersen <petersaj@bigpond.net.au>
Date: 2009/4/12
Subject: Fw: Peter Turner and the REAL D&E Platoon
To: Bud Cramer

From: Donald Tate
To: Allen Petersen
Sent: Sunday, 12 April 2009 5:50 AM
Subject: Peter Turner and the REAL D&E Platoon


In reacting to the attacks by Peter Turner (who claims to have been a member of the real D&E Platoon) I made remarks about that other platoon that might have been disparaging.

I apologise for that- I was really taking aim at this Turner bloke who claims he carried the M60 in that platoon. (We're still checking the Rolls, and are yet to find him anywhere in any D&E Platoon.)

In fact, the D&E Platoon of 1969 was an excellent platoon of men from all accounts, and capable led by Lt Ray Woolan. They were not found wanting in any instance.

However, given the fact that were an excellent platoon with a sound leader, the question remains- why wasn't that platoon used in the Xuyen Moc area instead of the "2nd D&E Platoon"?

It's a simple question.

Don Tate


Don Tate
author, "The War Within"

------------------------
Name: Don Tate
Email: warvet_69@yahoo.com
Enquiry: Hi
My name is Don Tate- veteran of the Vietnam War, and wounded in action in 1969. I am also the author of "The War Within".
This is to advise you that I will be speaking about my book, and showing colour movie film I took during the war- showing men from the 4th and 9th Battalions in the field. For the partners of veterans, the book and the films give some insight into what life was like for veterans in the war. The Queensland itinerary is:

- 11th June at Inala Library (Brisbane) at 11 am
- 12th June at Carindale Library (Brisbane) at 10 am
- 12th June at Chermside Library (Brisbane) at 1 pm
- 15th June at Sunnybank Hills Library (Brisbane) at 10 am
- 16th June at Garden City Library (Brisbane) at 1 pm
- 16th June at Ipswich Library (QLD) at 6.30 pm
- 17th June at Indooroopilly Library (Brisbane) at 10 am
- 18th June at Mitchelton Library (Brisbane) at 4 pm
- 19th June at Maryborough Library (QLD) at 10 am
- 22nd June at Hervey Bay Library (QLD) at 10 am
- 22nd June at Gympie Library (QLD) at 2 pm
- 23rd June at Nerang Library (QLD) at 10 am
- 23rd June at Goondiwindi RSL (QLD) at 6.30 pm

Just for your interest.
Perhaps some of your members would find this of interest.
Regards
Don Tate

NEW SOUTH WALES :

 

12th March at Eastgardens Library (Sydney) at 1 pm

16th March at Gladesville Library (Sydney) at 3 pm

26th March at Rockdale Library (Sydney) at 1pm

14th April at Goulburn Library at 10 am

14th April at Yass Library at 2 pm

14th April at Holbrook Library at 6.30 pm

15th April at Southern Cross Club ( Canberra ) at 10.30 am

16th April at Griffith Library at 10 am

16th April at West Wyalong Library at 6.00 pm

17th April at Leeton Library at 10 am

17th April at Museum of the Riverina (Wagga Wagga) at 6.30 pm

21st April at Liverpool Library (NSW) at 1pm

21st April at Campbelltown Library (NSW) at 6.30 pm

23rd April at Warilla Library (Shellharbour) at 2.00 pm


Don Tate

Here are lists of libraries which may help readers

http://www.nswnet.net/databases/libweb.cfm

http://libraries.slq.qld.gov.au/home/services

AWM

Ashley.Ekins@awm.gov.au

Steve.Gower@awm.gov.au
 
« Last Edit: Sunday12April2009 by Cassius » Logged

80s
Guest
« Reply #76 on: Sunday12April2009 »

"How can one man, a mere private soldier, in the sweat box HELL known as South Vietnam, serving in a hastily formed platoon, successfully compete in one of the most amazing battles in the Vietnamese War?"

FFS thats funny, I guess he is talking about Thua Tich, it was neither remarkable nor a battle it was an ordinary ambush that some Infantry played a small part in. Its amazing how people talk such small actions up into something on the scale of a Stalingrad or Dien Bien Phu.

80's
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cicero
Active Member


Karma: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 44


« Reply #75 on: Saturday11April2009 »

Wouldn't it be nice for someone when and wherever Tate pops his head up in his travelling "WAR WITHIN BAND AND BUY MY BOOK", walk up to hiM, introduce yourself, and flog the FXXx out of him.

That may shut this prick up for a few days anyway......the most obnoxious FXXXX WIT ever to wear  the green uniform...  and if he was a history teacher, and the way he has tried to alter history by his mind WITH THE D & E SABRE FORCE, one wonders what the students under his tutelege suffered....

TATE...WANKA EXTRORDINAIREEEEEEEEEEEEE Huh  THIS PRICK REALLY NEEDS A FLOGGING
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Mowgli
Guest
« Reply #74 on: Saturday11April2009 »

Bill Murray, ex-RAAF, TPI, no operational postings.  Removed from an ACT TPI ASSN senior position for, he says, his support of Tate.
Bill started his own splinter TPI ASSN and advertises himself as the best person to talk to about DVA pension matters in the ACT.  Charges?

"My Honourable Vietnam Veteran Comrades All"

I do not not consider Bill and I to be Comrades, I don't like that term for a start. Perhaps if a familiar former comrade-in-arms used it when addressing me it would be mildly welcome.
I'm afraid Bill's salutation comes off as disingenuous and used only to ingratiate himself with Veterans. There's a word for that.
Mowgli.

From: Bill Murray
To: Allen Petersen
Sent: Saturday, 11 April 2009 9:17 AM
Subject: Urgent Call For All Canberra Vets 15 April

My Honourable Vietnam Veteran Comrades All....There is a NASTY Rumour that a group is trying to stop you from hearing this remarkable story. Contact me now...urgently wrmurray@tpg.com.au or ring 02 62948225 to reserve your ticket
 
On 15 Apr at 1015 for 1030 Canberra Vets will be able to find out why a SENIOR OFFICER tried to stop you hearing a   truly remarkable story about a PRIVATE SOLDIER HIS OWN STORY  and to show his OWN BRILLIANT FILMS
 
Why did this former head of a Canberra ESO try to stop you hearing the story of a true Australian hero who had to fight for 39 years to have his Unit re re-recognised.
 
    The Senior Officer's pretence....wait for it
 
He wanted to protect soldiers suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder from any trigger mechanisms...this is recognised as the worst possible treatment for PTSD.
 
Come and listen to Private Don Tate, Author of the brilliantly acclaimed book, ‘The War Within’

How can one man, a mere private soldier, in the sweat box HELL known as South Vietnam, serving in a hastily formed platoon, successfully compete in one of the most amazing battles in the Vietnamese War?

His reward! To have his platoon forgotten and written out of military history by HIS government for 39 years !

His goal! With the aid of a few men to prise open the secrets of war, secrets that protected just a few chosen men, so that these forgotten few extraordinarily brave men, could take their rightful place along side Australia’s truly brave war veterans.

The Man, Private Don Tate, has been invited to Canberra by concerned veterans led by Bill Murray TPI, Canberra’s leading independent TPI consultant, so that everyone will have a chance to hear Don’s story about hell in Vietnam, and his own personal hell, which he still experiences. This is one of the most highly acclaimed books of the Vietnam era..

Hear Don Tate talk And show his personal film collection from Vietnam at Canberra’s Premier Community Minded Club Woden

Date 15 April 2009   Time 1030                                                         

Must be seated by 1015 to guarantee admission

                              Admission Free by ticket: (02)62948225 or email: wrmurray@tpg.com
 
Please include your email address for return of your ticket
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80s
Guest
« Reply #73 on: Saturday11April2009 »

Thanx for the feedback guys.

Isnt it always funny how these wannabees are always something special, very few make up stories about just being a baggyarse linedog doing his bit, guess if u are going to embellish it pays to think big.

80's
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Mowgli
Guest
« Reply #72 on: Saturday11April2009 »

80s wrote.
I found the comments about the number of actions and kills quite interesting. Lets face it back in this era ambushing was very much a hit or miss affair. With limited technology to allow accurate firing at night, it was just a case of generating a large volume of fire to your front and hoping to hit something. It is more than likely that the M18 Claymores and Spooky did most of the 'wet' work that night along with the Cav boys who would have had a height advantage and better visibility (though still limited) into the ambush site. Not to take anything away from any who took part in the ambush at all, but just keeping it realistic.

80s.
A veteran has done the numbers on the ambush and can offer guesstimates of who got what with what of the credited 11 x en KIA.
Without CAV clarification, I can picture a “mechanical ambush”  Have a look at the attached Denis Gibbons photo, AWM ID P04665.699, first. North to right of shot. CAV in tree cover W of gates (full moon 31 MAY), “mechanical ambush” banks of Claymores S of them, clear area to the rear.
HQ SECT 2 TP CAV blew the Claymores and engaged with guns.  D&E, c/s 63, 500m down the road S blew their Claymores on signal. Approx 50 rounds AK fired back into the CAV loc by 3 fleeing VC scouts who were initially allowed to pass though the killing ground. Nil fire any into D&E loc.
81mm mortar rounds fired to projected VC withdrawal routes i.e. E of the road from the 500m S D&E loc to the gates plus S. Spooky spent time on two runs hosing to the S & E.
30 MAY. VC KIA remains in CAV ground, 8.  An early sweep picked up 3 in the D&E ground.  A Bushranger spotted large empty graves S the D&E loc 31 MAY, suggesting anything from 3 to who knows how many more from mortar, Spooky fire.

D&E ? SECT, c/s 63, CPL, L/CPL, 1xM60, 6x RFN. Seven names confirmed as present. Two more highly likely P but it appears 2nd D&E PL wannabes had supplied any names they fancied to the AWM for photo descriptions/captions.

As for the inferrance made by Riddle about the cav boys being "safe" in their carriers, given that everybody naturally fires high at night (a bayonet fixed can help that) but i guess you would be more of a target in a carrier than laying prone on the jungle floor (did they dig shell scrapes?). As an Infantryman myself I would rather not be in a carrier in this situation. Only takes an RPG to ruin ur day and u would be a bigger target. Just my thoughts on it.

There’s a more than good chance Riddle didn’t say that about the cav boys at all. Tate “quotes” have no bearing on fact.
One thing I saw on shell scrapes makes me think they did use them.  Reportedly, D&E of a latter day did not.

There is one way Tate can compound his felony.  It would only take one word from him about an award made for a top notch 1970 ambush and the very heavens would descend on him.

Another interesting point I noted is the use of the suicide threat by alot of people when questioned about dubious claims of service etc. It a common guilt trip tactic.

I believe more will be posted here on the “suicide threats”

Mowgli


* THUA_TICH_CAV_AMBUSH_LOC_30_MAY_69.jpg (73.92 KB, 450x303 - viewed 1018 times.)
« Last Edit: Saturday11April2009 by Mowgli » Logged
Ethelred
Guest
« Reply #71 on: Saturday11April2009 »


What is the name of the Petersen chat forum by the way and does the Galah Movt have a website?

80's

80s Petersen operates an email list, which has a reputation for posting abuse and nonsense. He has no chat room and the mad galahs have no website or forum.
ETH
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80s
Guest
« Reply #70 on: Saturday11April2009 »

Hi All,

I found the comments about the number of actions and kills quite interesting. Lets face it back in this era ambushing was very much a hit or miss affair. With limited technology to allow accurate firing at night, it was just a case of generating a large volume of fire to your front and hoping to hit something. It is more than likely that the M18 Claymores and Spooky did most of the 'wet' work that night along with the Cav boys who would have had a height advantage and better visibility (though still limited) into the ambush site. Not to take anything away from any who took part in the ambush at all, but just keeping it realistic.

As for the inferrance made by Riddle about the cav boys being "safe" in their carriers, given that everybody naturally fires high at night (a bayonet fixed can help that) but i guess you would be more of a target in a carrier than laying prone on the jungle floor (did they dig shell scrapes?). As an Infantryman myself I would rather not be in a carrier in this situation. Only takes an RPG to ruin ur day and u would be a bigger target. Just my thoughts on it.

Another interesting point I noted is the use of the suicide threat by alot of people when questioned about dubious claims of service etc. It a common guilt trip tactic.

What is the name of the Petersen chat forum by the way and does the Galah Movt have a website?

80's
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Mowgli
Guest
« Reply #69 on: Saturday11April2009 »

"Couldnt agree more Bud but we might be treading on sensitive toes! cheers, Allen"

This veteran asked that we publish the following.
After being told about the "sensitive toes" nature of a sick veteran charity case in QLD, he found via an email Cc that Barry Corse is involved at high level. This may not be fact but the name and the address were there.
To Bud, the "sensitive toes" side of nothing more than supplying a sick veteran with a donations funded wheelchair, said back off and it developed a "stink" of yet another Barry Corse inspired conspiracy theory. Probably something along the lines of  "Red Hats again destroy Army records in collusion with heads of AWM and Parliament House morning tea promotional and service personnel to veil in eternal secrecy a Phantom Platoon's operations in Africa"
Bud has followed the "2nd D&E PL" farce closely and believed that the men involved in the charity case are all honorable men, unlike the arsehole Corse, and deserved his heads-up.  He later received an email, not from Corse, but from "Stumbles" Tate.
Bud's DVA VVVNR details supplied by him.
Read on.
Mowgli.



Barry Corse, Jim Witshire and Don Tate have absolutely no connection to the Kedron RSL drive to collect money for a good cause they have embarked on.
Allen Petersen, who runs a veteran chat forum, and sent this under private conditions "Couldnt agree more Bud but we might be treading on sensitive toes! cheers, Allen" also CCd what were supposed to be semi-private emails from an Army Major at Kedron to Barry Corse and Jim Wiltshire, they brought in Don Tate. The Major hit Reply All and the wannabes were in the charity loop getting his info. Wannabes and their sycophants, sly two-faced pricks all.
Failed Soldier Allen Petersen has demonstrated yet again where he sits, right in the Mad Galah lap. Good. There's nothing quite like knowing exactly where to find an extra boat anchor when you need one. AVM will probably cop the standard Galah party line now, "evil intent to cause I, me, we, us, to commit suicide"
Mowgli

« Last Edit: Saturday11April2009 by Cassius » Logged
DandEGun
Guest
« Reply #68 on: Saturday11April2009 »

What sort of a name is Bud?
What typical childish behaviour from the wannabe to pick on a person's name. Got nothing better for a put down slug?
I know Bud Cramer. He said this is ok to do. He'll explain the reason for his nickname to any reasonable person. Not to that stupid prick. I attached an article about his father and it shows where the name came from. He was Little Bud when he was a kid and keeps the last bit in honour of his father.
Hey Tate. Where were you when he was spending a lot of time traveling with the NAMBUS Mobile Museum instead of being with his family? You pathetic prick.
D&EGun.
I forgot to add that he changed an E in CREMER to an A after RTA.


* Dad_in_Spain.jpg (220.43 KB, 486x902 - viewed 1052 times.)
« Last Edit: Saturday11April2009 by DandEGun » Logged
Mowgli
Guest
« Reply #67 on: Friday10April2009 »

"Couldnt agree more Bud but we might be treading on sensitive toes! cheers, Allen"

This veteran asked that we publish the following.
After being told about the "sensitive toes" nature of a sick veteran charity case in QLD, he found via an email Cc that Barry Corse is involved at high level. This may not be fact but the name and the address were there.
To Bud, the "sensitive toes" side of nothing more than supplying a sick veteran with a donations funded wheelchair, said back off and it developed a "stink" of yet another Barry Corse inspired conspiracy theory. Probably something along the lines of  "Red Hats again destroy Army records in collusion with heads of AWM and Parliament House morning tea promotional and service personnel to veil in eternal secrecy a Phantom Platoon's operations in Africa"
Bud has followed the "2nd D&E PL" farce closely and believed that the men involved in the charity case are all honorable men, unlike the arsehole Corse, and deserved his heads-up.  He later received an email, not from Corse, but from "Stumbles" Tate.
Bud's DVA VVVNR details supplied by him.
Read on.
Mowgli.

BRANDON-CRAMER, Ernest Christopher Michael
(aka Bud Cramer)
2793136
1 Australian Reinforcement Unit      09/07/1970      29/07/1970
8th Battalion, The Royal Australian Regiment     30/07/1970     30/10/1970
Headquarters, 1st Australian Task Force     31/10/1970     02/09/1971
(served D&E PL)
*****************

2009/4/10 Donald Tate <warvet_69@yahoo.com>

    For Bud Cramer
    Hey dickhead, I think you need to take a look at the new history of the Vietnam War- the 2nd D&E Platoon is now firmly established in the records of the war, as is its record of operations during May-June 1969. I wonder how that happened? Could it be that intelligent bureaucrats, military leaders and politicians actually sorted through the 200+ pages of evidence and realised they could come come to no other conclusion but admit that the 2nd D&E Platoon did exist? Perhaps they were swayed by the statement by ex-Reservist OC of the HQ Company, Major George Pratt that he "created the 2nd D&E Platoon". Or maybe it was Lt Barry Parkin's written acknowledgement that he was instructed to "train up and lead the 2nd D&E Platoon". Think that could be it? Or was it the Statutory Declarations made by former members of the platoon? Or was it the fact that no one in Lt Ray Woolan's legitimate D&E Platoon (which was operating in the same region, relatively speaking) has come forward to say they were part of the "other" platoon? Is it because none of the men standing around on that raised dirt track actually belonged to Woolan's "REAL" D&E Platoon?
    Fools like you- 'experts' from afar, not being there at the time, and knowing nothing about the matter whatsoever, believe everything you read from your maggot mates in Coward's Castle, and bob up on occasions and fire a burst away- not realising that no one but the Army History Unit has seen all the documentation.
    I'm sure you'll be pleased to know, however, that I have personally written to the Minister for Veteran Affairs and requested a Royal Commission into the whole affair. Lock, stock, and barrel- maladministration, roll books, war crimes, false reports, gallantry medals. That'll certainly sort the matter out won't it, Bud?
    Nowhere to hide then, is there? For anyone.
    Incidentally Bud (what sort of name is 'Bud'?) I don't hide under a rock like you and your sort. I'm out and about, and have no trouble looking the world in the eye. Incidentally, since you're hiding up there in Vietnam, perhaps you could inform the Defence Attache in Hanoi that there's a mass grave somewhere between Thua Tich and Xuyen Moc- according to the "official" records. I'm sure they'll be pleased to be able to locate it and mark it as a war grave. That'd disprove us conspiracy theorists wouldn't it? Crawl back into your rat hole Cramer, with your mates. Both of them. By the way- who was it you served with again?
    Don Tate

***************

"By the way- who was it you served with again?"

The total reply.

"D&E PLATOON 2793136"

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Mowgli
Guest
« Reply #66 on: Friday10April2009 »

That letter of Tate's to the Canberra Times is disturbing. It's one of his standard complaints topped up with a current item of interest.
Can this man be so stricken with a personality disorder that he doesn't realise what he's done?
http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis/p20-pe04.html
"Antisocial Personality Disorder is a condition characterized by persistent disregard for, and violation of, the rights of others that begins in childhood or early adolescence and continues into adulthood. Deceit and manipulation are central features of this disorder"
"Anxiety Disorders, Depressive Disorders, Substance-Related Disorders, Somatization Disorder, Pathological Gambling (and other impulse control disorders), and other Personality Disorders (especially Borderline, Histrionic, and Narcissistic) frequently co-occur with this disorder"

He's standing smack in the middle of a huge pile of multiple-train-crash-wreckage (his life) and I'm convinced he doesn't know it. He's going to carry on as per normal. In the middle of thinking about backing off a bit and just concentrating on his shit in the AWM collection, Admin forwarded an email from a veteran.  Rethink time, I'll post it.

Mowgli
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DandEGun
Guest
« Reply #65 on: Friday10April2009 »

Allow me to semi-introduce myself.
I am DandEGun and was a gunner with 2 SECT, D&E PL, HQCOY, 1ATF.
As Tate was getting all the support he needed from his fellow "2nd D&E" wankers and wannabe mates he put a message on the HQ COY 1 ATF ASSN site guestbook in early 07 "It would appear that the "official' platoon has dined out on the exploits of the 'second" D@E Platoon for the last time"
I took him for a fool then and dismissed him. I never imagined his stupidity would extend to the point it has done.
At the end of 1969 D&E had 41 confirmed dinks on the Kills Board. Now this puss and his two girlfriends Bigwood and Lloyd-Thomas are claiming something like more than 50 kills in under a month.
That single 9 man rifle section of ex 4RAR Digs (c/s 63) at Thua Tich got three en KIA x Claymore. Nil x SA. Same section (c/s 63) got nil en KIA on the road back to Xuyen Moc. They didn't fire a shot. I believe Mowgli has explained the "2nd D&E" kills situation clearly so I'm just backing him up.
I think Mowgli said this already but I can't find it, my apologies.  Section c/s 63 left Xuyen Moc on 31st May with 2 TP for Nui Dat.
What was section c/s 63 was immediately sent to Saigon for a "well done" break. Guards to the OR's accommodation in Cholon for a week. Returned TF and virtually straight to 9RAR mid May. Actual "2nd D&E" bush time. Eight days, 23rd May to 31st May 1969 with 2 TP AOs Scorpion and briefly Frog.
Contacts (night ambush) x 2. Contacts while closed down in an (1) APC for protection x 1. Total confirmed en KIA, 3 x Claymore. Those 3 x en KIA were recorded on the D&E Kills Board along with 38 others. http://www.hq1atf.org/pix.htm
I can picture the useless fairy bashing dixies in the Pig's Mess for his six weeks at HQCOY.
Movie Star says he carried his camera at the expense of the weight of one days Rats per week. Just what a PL needed, dragging along a undernourished clumsy idiot for no other reason than making "MY WAR"
Good job AVM.
I'm doing every small thing I can do to assist with making sure his shit disappears from the AWM.
D&EGun
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80s
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« Reply #64 on: Thursday09April2009 »

Thats a bit rich from Don considering they made such a big issue of the medals that Arrowsmith ultimately recieved, they are gong chasers themselves.
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« Reply #63 on: Thursday09April2009 »

The following article appeared in the Canberra Times today.  I don't know Don Tate or anything about his book but you can make what you like from the following article written by him:

"As a former high school teacher and a returned, disabled veteran of the Vietnam War, I am appalled at the recent disclaimer issued by the Australian War Memorial that it cannot guarantee the accuracy of the historical information it contains. The inaccuracy of the 'official' records held by the memorial has aggravated veterans for decades - both with respect to personal histories and battle accounts.

But what has been even worse (as I discovered when writing The War Within), is that even when the memorial is provided with a suitcase of evidence fundamental to providing that its 'official' accounts are wrong, its director and his historians steadfastly hold on to the official accounts for as long as possible to avoid causing any embarrassment to senior officers.

The 'editing out' of the 2nd Defence and Employment Platoon from all histories of the war is not only an abominable bureaucratic army bungle in the first instance, but a doomed attempt to cover up serious contentions that occurred in the field.

The Government needs to look into allegations that our national war history has been compromised on the altar of vainglorious pursuit of medals and personal ambition - and all attempts at correcting this fall on deaf ears by those at the War Memorial.
Don Tate, Albion Park Rail, NSW."
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Fergus Fairfax
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« Reply #62 on: Wednesday08April2009 »

From: avmemaillist@austvetmatters.net
To: avmemaillist@austvetmatters.net
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 5:21 PM
Subject: [YOU SUBSCRIBED TO THE AVM EMAIL LIST].... THIS PROVES DON TATE ISA FRAUD LIAR AND A WANNABE


Good day subscribers,
 
You might say we have near completed our revelations about Don Tate.
 
Tate is a fraud and wannabe of the worst kind, and his sick and lying behaviour rivals any wannabe we have had the misfortune to confront over many years operating in the Veteran community and ESOs.
 
Tate has defrauded politicians, the AWM staff, ESOs, the media, publishers, his own family and worst of all decent Veterans who have suffered and died during Australia's Wars.
 
To read the latest on Tates fanciful book you can go here
 
http://www.austvetmatters.net/Docs/tateupdate8april09.doc
 
here
 
http://www.austvetmatters.net/Docs/tateupdatetwo8april09.doc
 
and here
 
http://www.austvetmatters.net/updates.html
 
WE COMMEND MOWGLIS WORK TO YOU--------AVM WEBSITE

PS....forgot to say...the files take a little while to download
« Last Edit: Wednesday08April2009 by Fergus Fairfax » Logged
Mowgli
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« Reply #61 on: Wednesday08April2009 »

I keep an eye on Tate related photos in the AWM collection online. A minute ago I made a check to see if any more of these items have been re-modified recently. Two items stuck out as having had something done to them.

ID: P04778.002
"1201907 Private Don Tate, of 9 Battalion, the Royal Australian Regiment, (9RAR), prepares to throw a grenade as he crouches in long grass"

ID: P04778.001
"Informal portrait of 1201907 Private Don William Tate, of 9 Battalion, the Royal Australian Regiment, (9RAR), crouching in long grass while on patrol in Vietnam"

If you search those IDs you see the photos but if you go a step further and click on this link  Go to this record in our Collections Search  beneath them, this appears at the top.

"This information may change as a result of further research. Any comments, please contact us"

I wonder why.

Mowgli
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Mowgli
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« Reply #60 on: Wednesday08April2009 »

One NSW library has already cancelled Tate's speaking engagement thanks an AVM forum member and some other vets.
I was in the process of knocking up a Word Doc for distribution to as many libraries as possible but changed track. I think the library venues idea suggested by PL is a better bet right now.
I'll now make it short with a very basic rundown on Tate's time at HQ Coy 1 ATF and only concentrate on the lies in his damn book about Thua Tich and Xuyen Moc.
I've spent a lot of time with Army maps, Army records, going over old emails, watching Tate videos, talking to veterans who knew Tate, reading what I believe to be facts and also reading what is nothing more than Tate style wannabe crap.
I'll comment within the lines of the book pages themselves so that as you read his garbage you'll see my short denial immediately underneath. Just about everything I'll write is already contained in AVM updates on the website, easy to check back to get more detailed info on one or more points if necessary.
If anyone is interested in printing the Doc out or even forwarding by email, your comments added, to one of Tate's library venues listed in the Cassius post from yesterday that should be directly above this, then please do.
I must ask that if you do distribute the Doc, please make sure first that you're convinced that what I write is fact and nothing but.
I'll make comments based on my Infantry experience and knowledge of Cav-Inf patrols, particularly the Recon-In-Force patrols that the single (1) D&E section (c/s 63) was part of in AO Scorpion before moving to AO Frog and Thua Tich.
Let's see how we go.

The Tate venues email.

Name: Don Tate
Email: warvet_69@yahoo.com
Enquiry: Hi
My name is Don Tate- veteran of the Vietnam War, and wounded in action in 1969. I am also the author of "The War Within".
This is to advise you that I will be speaking about my book, and showing colour movie film I took during the war- showing men from the 4th and 9th Battalions in the field. For the partners of veterans, the book and the films give some insight into what life was like for veterans in the war.


The AWM description of what film they hold, ID:F04756, would make one think Tate was in 10 Pl D Coy 4 RAR and on Op Stafford, 17 Apr - 2 May 69. There's film of contact this, and contact that, and after contact the other.  But like Thua Tich, he wasn't there.   
You might remember that 10 Pl was the same platoon, same Op, where he says he was ordered to collect body parts of an AUST KIA and that caused memory loss. But again he didn't do that because he wasn't there.

Tate wasn't in 10Pl,  he was in 11 Platoon  and I sincerely doubt he was on Op Stafford.  I've got the names of his Section and Platoon Commanders.

Remember his story about getting separated from his platoon on his "first day in the jungle" and taking on an enemy force all on his lonesome?
The film star got separated alright, he got separated right back to D Coy lines at Nui Dat after his "first day in the jungle"

That's one of the reasons he now can never ever admit to having been in 11 Platoon.  Someone might remember that he was sent out of the bush for being an idiot or worse. I'll find out why.

Don Boy spent more time behind the Nui Dat wire than he did outside it. His total of six weeks at HQ 1 ATF was one period in which he never saw the scrub, let alone Thua Tich and Xuyen Moc.

I think in ten years we'll still be talking about Australia's No1 wannabe to come out of the Vietnam War. This mongrel makes China Hammal look like a rank amateur.

The free for distribution Word Doc should appear on the AVM website sometime soon. No idea exactly when. Admin will advise.

Mowgli

wait out

 
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Boots
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« Reply #59 on: Tuesday07April2009 »

Reading about Tate, I have no doubt he is a sociopath.
That is the "new" title they give to psychopaths.
Here is a sociopath's profile.
    * Glibness and Superficial Charm

    * Manipulative and Conning
      They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

    * Grandiose Sense of Self
      Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

    * Pathological Lying
      Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

    * Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
      A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

    * Shallow Emotions
      When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

    * Incapacity for Love

    * Need for Stimulation
      Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

    * Callousness/Lack of Empathy
      Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

    * Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
      Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

    * Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
      Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

    * Irresponsibility/Unreliability
      Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

    * Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
      Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

    * Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
      Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

    * Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
      Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

Other Related Qualities:

   1. Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
   2. Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
   3. Authoritarian
   4. Secretive
   5. Paranoid
   6. Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
   7. Conventional appearance
   8. Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
   9. Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life
  10. Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
  11. Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
  12. Incapable of real human attachment to another
  13. Unable to feel remorse or guilt
  14. Extreme narcissism and grandiose
  15. May state readily that their goal is to rule the world

Boots
« Last Edit: Wednesday08April2009 by Boots » Logged
Zion
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« Reply #58 on: Tuesday07April2009 »

PL mentions libraries in the mad galah thread and cassius has posted these library sites which will help get the word out

From cassius

Here are lists of libraries which may help readers

http://www.nswnet.net/databases/libweb.cfm

http://libraries.slq.qld.gov.au/home/services


This is Tates itinerary for Qld and NSW.

Name: Don Tate
Email: warvet_69@yahoo.com
Enquiry: Hi
My name is Don Tate- veteran of the Vietnam War, and wounded in action in 1969. I am also the author of "The War Within".
This is to advise you that I will be speaking about my book, and showing colour movie film I took during the war- showing men from the 4th and 9th Battalions in the field. For the partners of veterans, the book and the films give some insight into what life was like for veterans in the war. The Queensland itinerary is:

- 11th June at Inala Library (Brisbane) at 11 am
- 12th June at Carindale Library (Brisbane) at 10 am
- 12th June at Chermside Library (Brisbane) at 1 pm
- 15th June at Sunnybank Hills Library (Brisbane) at 10 am
- 16th June at Garden City Library (Brisbane) at 1 pm
- 16th June at Ipswich Library (QLD) at 6.30 pm
- 17th June at Indooroopilly Library (Brisbane) at 10 am
- 18th June at Mitchelton Library (Brisbane) at 4 pm
- 19th June at Maryborough Library (QLD) at 10 am
- 22nd June at Hervey Bay Library (QLD) at 10 am
- 22nd June at Gympie Library (QLD) at 2 pm
- 23rd June at Nerang Library (QLD) at 10 am
- 23rd June at Goondiwindi RSL (QLD) at 6.30 pm

Just for your interest.
Perhaps some of your members would find this of interest.
Regards
Don Tate

NEW SOUTH WALES :

 

12th March at Eastgardens Library (Sydney) at 1 pm

16th March at Gladesville Library (Sydney) at 3 pm

26th March at Rockdale Library (Sydney) at 1pm

14th April at Goulburn Library at 10 am

14th April at Yass Library at 2 pm

14th April at Holbrook Library at 6.30 pm

15th April at Southern Cross Club ( Canberra ) at 10.30 am

16th April at Griffith Library at 10 am

16th April at West Wyalong Library at 6.00 pm

17th April at Leeton Library at 10 am

17th April at Museum of the Riverina (Wagga Wagga) at 6.30 pm

21st April at Liverpool Library (NSW) at 1pm

21st April at Campbelltown Library (NSW) at 6.30 pm

23rd April at Warilla Library (Shellharbour) at 2.00 pm


Don Tate
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dodger39
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« Reply #57 on: Tuesday07April2009 »

Thanks Fergus,

Just this minute found it on the "It's An Honor " site,( I should have looked first before asking) and he has been legally awarded it.(for Involvement in cricket)
« Last Edit: Tuesday07April2009 by dodger39 » Logged
Fergus Fairfax
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« Reply #56 on: Tuesday07April2009 »

Readers,
The "other" medal which fraud Tate wears is The Australian Sports Medal. If he has been legally granted this medal it is being worn in the correct order.

Heavens to murgatroyd, we can't have war hero Tate with just four medals, he needs at least five to look important and what better way than to include a medal which looks like a Service medal to all civilians.

The man is a proven wannabe, though rat cunning and slimy.
« Last Edit: Tuesday07April2009 by Cassius » Logged
dodger39
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« Reply #55 on: Tuesday07April2009 »

Could someone tell me what the centre medal on his rack is?
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Mowgli
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« Reply #54 on: Tuesday07April2009 »

Two different takes on an Aust Gov - ADF - AWM decision already done and dusted.
Bill got the boot from the ACT TPI Association not long ago. He says it was because of his overt, or maybe overenthusiastic, support for Don Tate and the 2nd D&E - Sabre Force farce.
I believe Bill is ex-RAAF with no o/s postings.

On 2 April Cavman wrote.

"I can say that I am aware that Dr Mike Kelly is in the process of writing to the 3 Cav Association's leadership formally apologising for  having the Squadron's reputation brought into disrepute by Tate's baseless assertions regarding certain actions during 1969.  That is vindication that we in the Squadron at that time in history,  served with integrity dignity and honour and we also stand vindicated by the War Memorial's decision to refuse to acknowledge the presence of a unit that never existed.
My best to you all"
cavman
(3 Cav - 2 tours)

**********************
On 7 April Bill Murray wrote.

"How can one man, a mere private soldier, in the sweat box HELL known as South Vietnam, serving in a hastily formed platoon, successfully compete in one of the most amazing battles in the Vietnamese War?"
"His reward! To have his platoon forgotten and written out of military history  by HIS government for 39 years !
His goal! With the aid of a few men to prise open the secrets of war, secrets that protected just a few chosen men, so that these forgotten few extraordinarily brave men, could take their rightful place along side Australia’s truly brave war veterans"

**********************
From: Bill Murray
To: Allen Petersen
Sent: Monday, 6 April 2009 12:30 PM
Subject: A Morning With Don Tate in Canberra

My Honourable Veteran Comrades and Empathetic Citizens All...

I am privileged to be involved in bringing Don Tate to Canberra for one speaking engagement. With the extremely generous aid of The Southern Cross Club, Woden, Don will be my guest on 15 April at 1015. Please note the time is 1015 for 1030. Because many senior business people will be present their time is crucial. Your punctuality will be greatly appreciated. Everyone is free to stay and have a meal in the bistro...or a beer in the best 'sporties' in town.

This is Don's show...The story which he brings to you is delivered in his own raw emotional style, complete with personal films Don took whilst on duty in Vietnam.  Please email me (wrmurray@tpg.com.au) for tickets which will be immediately returned by email. Canberran Vets...find out why one ESO did not want you to hear Don speak, preferring that all PTSD sufferers be shielded, hidden and forbidden from seeing, any trigger mechanism.

This is Don's Story...Don't miss it! Please direct all enquiries to me either by email wrmurray@tpg.com.au or by telephone (02) 62948225

To Our Veterans With Disabilities

As the sun sets and sleep awaits

Lets honour them and treat them with dignity

         Bill Murray....Copyright 2009 WR Murray

Private Don Tate,

Author of the brilliantly acclaimed book, ‘The War Within’

How can one man, a mere private soldier, in the sweat box HELL known as South Vietnam, serving in a hastily formed platoon, successfully compete in one of the most amazing battles in the Vietnamese War?

His reward! To have his platoon forgotten and written out of military history  by HIS government for 39 years !

His goal! With the aid of a few men to prise open the secrets of war, secrets that protected just a few chosen men, so that these forgotten few extraordinarily brave men, could take their rightful place along side Australia’s truly brave war veterans.

The Man, Private Don Tate, has been invited to Canberra by concerned veterans led by Bill Murray TPI, Canberra’s leading independent TPI consultant, so that everyone will have a chance to hear Don’s story about hell in Vietnam, and his own personal hell, which he still experiences. This is one of the most highly acclaimed books of the Vietnam era..

Hear Don Tate talk And show his personal film collection from Vietnam at Canberra’s Premier Community Minded Club Woden

                           Date 15 April 2009   Time 1030                                                         

Must be seated by 1015 to guarantee admission

                              Admission Free by ticket: (02)62948225 or email: wrmurray@tpg.com.

Please include your email address for return of your ticket
***************
The attached photo was embedded in Bill's email.


* clip_image001.png (672.05 KB, 889x562 - viewed 1078 times.)
« Last Edit: Tuesday07April2009 by Mowgli » Logged
Mowgli
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« Reply #53 on: Monday06April2009 »

PL mentions libraries in the mad galah thread and cassius has posted these library sites which will help get the word out

This week I'll be following up on PL's lead with AVM Admin assistance.

Has anyone read Tate's book or attended on of his talks? I'd like to know what emphasis he places on his short time with 4 RAR.
We and the entire free world know he was wounded but what else comes to the fore. Is this type of shock-horror story retold?
Maybe something he used in a DVA TPI claim?

From: Donald Tate    (warvet_69@yahoo.com)
To: Allen Petersen
Sent: Wednesday, 4 March 2009 12:35 AM
Subject: the latest Fergus Fairfax attack!
“Similarly, I also have no recollection of many of the early contacts with the 4th battalion after the deaths of two men in January and having to collect the body parts of one of them”


The two 10 Platoon Privates he dishonourably mentions were KIA 1020H 31 January 69. The contact at YS300830 also resulted in 2 Aust WIA

Tate was in 11 Platoon Delta 4. The nearest locstat I can find for 11 PL is 1645H YS298829, some 220m to 10 Pl's SE. (1500m SE Firestone Trail) There is no record of the two PLs joining up to a single loc prior to the 311020h contact.

There would have been no reason for 11 PL to join 10 PL after the contact. Tate's blubbering tale is nothing than more of his bullshit.

Why does StumblesTate long to have been in 10 PL and not 11PL?

1...His inbred ineptitude, stupidity in failure to follow even basic weapons handling procedures, and stumbling bumbling nature was well known in 11 PL. His nickname and how he got it is mentioned in the Delta 4 tour book.

He couldn't have that getting out so he changed Platoons to one where, in the main, returned men couldn't possibly remember him.

2...In 1993 Tate donated film and photos to the AWM and has since placed values of $90,000 and $95,000 on these items.
The prime donation is film of Tate in company-platoon locs and stumbling at The Horseshoe.

A description of this film can be found here.
http://cas.awm.gov.au/PROD/cst.acct_master?surl=1840201739ZZSUKRXLLYAT58203&stype=3&simplesearch=&v_umo=&v_product_id=&screen_name=&screen_parms=&screen_type=RIGHT&bvers=5&bplatform=Netscape&bos=Win32

The photos can be viewed here.
http://cas.awm.gov.au/photograph/P04778.002
http://cas.awm.gov.au/photograph/P04778.001

I can only guess but that film would be the version, or close to it, that he uses in his  book flogging talks at libraries.
I cut this from the description.
ID Number: F04756
"10 Platoon 4 RAR in the field after a contact - eating rations, ablutions"
"Clearing sweep after contact. 10 Platoon and 'D' Company 4 RAR on R&C leave in Vung Tau"

To avoid any 11 PL veteran mention of his stupidity, and unwillingness to be anything more than a film star, he chose 10PL.

No one knew him from 10 PL but two veterans should have remembered him had he been a member. Who could forget the man with the movie camera? They don't remember him from 4 RAR but they knew him in D&E Pl HQ Coy 1 ATF.

Tate presented film to the AWM which is historically incorrect in that the other man he filmed were 11 PL and not 10 PL. He removed his fellow 11 PL members from a part of what is regarded as his Vietnam War history and supplanted their images with those of others.
"Is that you in the movie Granpa?" "I thought it was but Don's film is of 10 PL, I was in 11 PL"

Tate's "history" is flawed and therefore not history. His film is naught but a self-serving document fit only for his living room and never to be shown in public places for monetary gain.

3...Tate not only fraudulently transplanted himself from one Delta 4 Platoon to another. He uprooted a close veteran mate from his position in a May 69 Thua Tich ambush aftermath photo and plonked himself in the third from right position. The uprooted "mate" got shifted to the end of the line completely denying another man's presence at the loc.
These were not private photos he played with, they are part of the AWM collection. Unfortunately I can't show proof of the other one now.

Tate's description of the three man on right of photo in his Sabre Force document.
BEL/69/0372/VN:
Blazely; Elcombe; Manski; Tate; Slattery; Colmer; the gates; dead bodies

AWM description
BEL/69/0372/VN:
Blazely, Moss, Ellcombe, (unidentified behind Ellcombe), Manski, Colmer, Slattery, Simpson.

Ted Colmer got shifted to make way for Tate and David Simpson was shoved out altogether.

Tate has stuffed with three historical items, that I've found so far, for personal glory and monetary gain in the sale of his damn book.

In stating that I firmly believe Tate used his phony 4 RAR tales of taking on an enemy force single-handed and of being ordered to "collect" body parts of Aust KIA, I allege DVA fraud on his part.

I allege fraud perpetrated on the AWM if the form of deliberately altered descriptions of what should be an historic film. Deliberately altered to show only the phony "history" Don Tate wants the public to see.

I allege bullying standover tactics used by Tate to coerce AWM personnel into accepting his phony film as fact. Had he signed a legal document attesting to the factual nature of the film he should face Police charges.

In 2008 Tate threatened senior AWM personnel with public disclosure of any reticence they may have had to complete and  official recognisance of the non-existent Sabre Force.
The AWM didn't fall into line.

More later on what's happening to remove that damn book from sale or lending.

Mowgli

wait out

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Ethelred
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« Reply #52 on: Monday06April2009 »

PL mentions libraries in the mad galah thread and cassius has posted these library sites which will help get the word out

From cassius

Here are lists of libraries which may help readers

http://www.nswnet.net/databases/libweb.cfm

http://libraries.slq.qld.gov.au/home/services
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Mowgli
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« Reply #51 on: Sunday05April2009 »

Further to my previous commments on the Mad Galah thread.

I only need one more scrap of 100% correct info to be able to reasonably request that our War Museum remove every last item of Tate film and photos from their collections. My request will include not only the physical items but the internet accessible photos and information as well.

In line with what another forum member wrote here somewhere, that request will be joined by another. I will request that along with those removals, all traces of their former existence in the AWM collection be removed as well.
 
Tate's "Sabre Force" "Discrete Infantry Platoon" "Special Force" bird has flown and that phoenix won't be rising from the ashes any time in the near future if AVM and I can manage it.
Tate has done too many wrong, spiteful, miserable, whining bastard things to have his memory enshrined in that loc along with those of good men.

Here's a link to a 3 RAR video which you might agree is better viewing and more realistic that watching Tate's movie star crap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoM_58X0MNY&feature=related

More info later

Mowgli

wait out
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80s
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« Reply #50 on: Sunday05April2009 »

Fair enough, but my info is from someone who was at Angus house with Riddle too and for quite a while. I have never been there myself.

80's
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Zion
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« Reply #49 on: Sunday05April2009 »

Readers I'm jumping in for Mowgli here.

This is the feedback, less name, from the VV who says he was at Angus House when Riddle was there. We have no reason to doubt this information because this comprehensive  and ongoing feedback has been solid and willingly given over time and it has the ring of truth about it.

From: *****  ******
To: admin
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: Thanks Mowgli.


Bloke by the name of Grant Angus (ex 6 RAR I think.). Have never met him. Jim was becoming very irritable by the time this guy arrived at the house. Listening to Jim story, it wasn't hard to piece together what "probably" happened. Jim had come in drunk and was sitting under the house where he met Angus. They started talking and then arguing about entitlements. Jim mentioned the plaque opening ceremony to bolster his case and I gather Angus laughed at it. Angus said something along the lines of "who the hell do you think you are?" Jim's come at him, not to fight, but to press home a point. Jim Riddle is a powerfully built man and I believe Angus, not knowing him, threw the first punch believing he was about to be assaulted. Riddle is an old man who is incapable of defending himself. When I saw him the next day I felt really sorry for him. But that's what I pieced together from our conversation. I remember one night telling him that there was no way he was going to be decorated on Don Tates say so. He became very indignant and accused me of being irreverent. He apologised the next morning.

NAME DELETED

Readers to keep this Forum tidy and easy to follow,please now keep this thread for any Tate related matters.

If you wish to open up others issues with other names we would appreciate it if you open a new thread.
Regards.


CORRECTION FOR MY FORMER POST........IF YOU SEARCH THE VVNR SEVERAL VETERANS NAMED ANGUS APPEAR.
 
« Last Edit: Sunday05April2009 by Cassius » Logged

Ethelred
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« Reply #48 on: Sunday05April2009 »

Gday 80s. I forgot to put in who I got that email from. I didn't write it, I am on the avm email list. I have fixed my post if you have a look.

ethelred.
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Zion
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« Reply #47 on: Sunday05April2009 »

Well I believe Riddle is involved no matter what each of us thinks about him. My info on him is solid as far as I am concerned. Don't forget that he is one of the many backing up Tates claims.

Is the site only going to deal with the core of the mad galahs or wider issues? Just reading the way Riddle goes on in the info you guys have provided portrays him as having an attitude problem.

He continually bags out officers, or Pogo's or even the Cav guys because they fought from their carriers. Well hello, its their job and I am sure he appreciated the firepower they provided, i doubt he would have actually preferred them to get out and engage the enemy with F1 SMG's instead. Riddle comes off as a whinger from the get go. He complains about senior officers visiting the ambush site, yet if they hadnt come he would have complained about that. I think alot of the anti-HQ, anti_officer sentiment displayed by the mad Galah conspiracy theorists has been fuelled by his attitude from the days in SVN.

But enough on that.

Hi 80s.

We intend opening up all matters which have a bearing on the mad galahs and any other frauds/wannabes in our midst. However 80s we simply don't see much point in pursuing a man who is now half a world away and who effectively has no bearing on the matters at hand. There is no doubt Riddle played a role, but his role in matters has concluded, while Tate/Corse/Wiltshire/Petersen/Briggs et al continue on their merry way around the country.

We have information from a Vietnam Veteran who says he was at Angus House at the same time Riddle was there.

So, in the interest of exposing frauds Tate and Corse and their camp followers we think it best now to move on and get that job done.

Regards.
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80s
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« Reply #46 on: Sunday05April2009 »

Well I believe Riddle is involved no matter what each of us thinks about him. My info on him is solid as far as I am concerned. Don't forget that he is one of the many backing up Tates claims.

Is the site only going to deal with the core of the mad galahs or wider issues? Just reading the way Riddle goes on in the info you guys have provided portrays him as having an attitude problem.

He continually bags out officers, or Pogo's or even the Cav guys because they fought from their carriers. Well hello, its their job and I am sure he appreciated the firepower they provided, i doubt he would have actually preferred them to get out and engage the enemy with F1 SMG's instead. Riddle comes off as a whinger from the get go. He complains about senior officers visiting the ambush site, yet if they hadnt come he would have complained about that. I think alot of the anti-HQ, anti_officer sentiment displayed by the mad Galah conspiracy theorists has been fuelled by his attitude from the days in SVN.

But enough on that.
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Ethelred
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« Reply #45 on: Saturday04April2009 »

From: avmemaillist@austvetmatters.net
To: avmemaillist@austvetmatters.net
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 9:53 PM
Subject: [YOU SUBSCRIBED TO THE AVM EMAIL LIST].... JIM RIDDLE UPDATE ANDHOW HE WAS USED

Good evening subscribers.
 
There has been much discussion about Jim Riddle since 2006-07.
 
Jim Riddle is a former British Army Royal Marine Sergeant who enlisted in the Australian Army during the Vietnam war and who served in Vietnam. He returned to the UK in the 1970s without becoming an Australian citizen.
 
Riddle is a man who displayed many faults and strengths while serving in the Australian Army.
 
However the critical issue with Riddle is not whether we like him or not, not whether he was a good Soldier or not and not whether he was a hero or not.
 
The critical matter is how Don Tate and Barry Corse, along with their fellow mad galahs and many other free loaders, used Jim for their own advantage. The way Riddle was used by Corse and Tate for their own selfish advantage was sickening and appalling. Tate used Riddle to make money. It's as simple as that. Corse used Riddle to bolster his weird conspiracy theories and make a name for himself. It's as simple as that.
 
To read Mowgli's expose of the Riddle matter go here
 
http://www.austvetmatters.net/Docs/jimriddle4%20april09.doc
 
or here
 
http://www.austvetmatters.net/updates.html
 
We intend to once and for all put the Jim Riddle matter to bed in Mowgli's document and move on to what is the real matter, and that is the lies, fraud, abuse and bullying of Tate, Corse, Colmer, Wiltshire, Briggs, Lloyd-Thomas, Bigwood and other mad galahs who support their behaviour.
 
GOOD EVENING TO YOU******AVM WEBSITE
« Last Edit: Sunday05April2009 by Cassius » Logged
Mowgli
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« Reply #44 on: Saturday04April2009 »

If Riddle wasn't strutting around like a peacock big noting himself and putting crap on others then its hard to fathom why he would have been assaulted at Angus House. No, from what I have heard he made a prick of himself and this "old hardened veteran" got put in his place, probably by a younger veteran sick of his BS Vietnam warries.

80's

80's.
We've heard things too and they don't quite agree with what you heard. Apparently Jim Riddle was a decent fellow when sober, that wasn't too often but there you have it.  One problem he had at Angus House was that no one believed his stories about the length of time he spent in Vietnam. He may have spun some warries but what would you have preferred, the shock-horror tales told to a therapy group by a one trip logistic support vessel Sailor?  That was another problem Riddle had. The Pusser had the TPI and Riddle couldn't get one. Why doesn't matter, it was the perceived inequity.
I'll find out exactly who assaulted Riddle and let you know. Time for the guessing and rumour to stop I think. Later on tonight there'll be a Jim Riddle update on the AVM web page. Jim Riddle is not the bad man in all this Sabre Farce business, it's Tate and his dance instructor Barry Corse.
Look for my update, let's get back on track.

Mowgli.
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Mowgli
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« Reply #43 on: Saturday04April2009 »

Cicero wrote;

"Does anyone know if there were other digs from D & E who were there at least with rank?"

Jim Riddle's rank fluctuated regularly.  He was back to T/Cpl on 3 April 69 six weeks before being posted to HQ 1ATF. His 4 RAR transfer group was under opcon to B Sqn 3 Cav for recon-in-force ops in AO Scorpion late May 69. The 3 CAV 2 Troop Group at Thua Tich was 4 sections plus. The D&E Infantry 7-8 man section was allocated a listening post loc with orders and Claymores to the front. A bright Infantry Private could have run that show.
L/Cpl Len Ellcombe was the actual section commander of the single (1) section. Riddle apparently took control of the section in AO Scorpion (c/s 63) and for the move from Xuyen Moc to there.
Although Kevin Lloyd-Thomas has denied this, he was getting HDA to Cpl while with the 4 RAR transfer group to D&E.
So, there were Jim Riddle and Len Ellcombe wearing appointed rank at the time. Tate was informed of this following a 22 April 08 letter from Dr. Mike Kelly MP to Jenny George MP.  I have a copy of the letter with Tate's hand written notes. See attached.

Mowgli.

* Letter_Kelly_to_George_for_info_Tate.pdf (633.8 KB - downloaded 486 times.)
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80s
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« Reply #42 on: Saturday04April2009 »

If Riddle wasn't strutting around like a peacock big noting himself and putting crap on others then its hard to fathom why he would have been assaulted at Angus House. No, from what I have heard he made a prick of himself and this "old hardened veteran" got put in his place, probably by a younger veteran sick of his BS Vietnam warries.

80's
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cicero
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« Reply #41 on: Saturday04April2009 »

Whilst leaving the matters of Jim Riddle out of this Tate business......one aspect that troubles me is that TATE has expressly used Riddle in various postings and emails as CPL, or LCPL....and then the plaque which lauds the D & E Platoon, shows Riddle as a Platoon Commander...and at times Private.....what is it Tate......Huh?.

I doubt that a private soldier would be 'chosen' to lead a group of 30 or so other diggers in operations under command of Cav.  Surely there would have been a least a LCPL or CPL leading the Inf elements........and I doubt Riddle was the leader...or is this more of Tate's bullshit, promoting the heroics and leadership of Riddle???

Does anyone know if there were other digs from D & E who were there at least with rank?

I can not imagine Cav taking a group of diggers on operation, without having someone from the TF infantry of rank.....to be accountable and give orders to the flock...especially the likes of Tate, Colmer etc etc........or do we rely on Tate again to say "Riddle, being the most hardened veteran, assumed leadership"....CRAP... Huh

 

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Fergus Fairfax
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« Reply #40 on: Saturday04April2009 »

Readers,
We have received the following feedback. It's important for all to understand Jim Riddle is not the issue any longer, if ever he was. Jim is now back in the UK and will never return to Australia.

The mad galahs have used him terribly. Tate visited Riddle once, during a book launch last year, and then for just a few hours. Riddle is of no further use to Tate,Corse, Colmer et al and the mad galahs. Jim has many faults, many of which he admits himself. In any case no matter what we think of Riddle, and no matter what he did or didn't do, the real concern is the mad galah behaviour and the lies, fraud and bullying of Tate and his henchmen.

Please read on


From: **** *****
To: admin@austvetmatters.net
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 12:37 PM
Subject: Mad Galahs


Admin,
            The Mad Galahs must be beside themselves with glee watching this feeding frenzy on Riddle. They may try to use it to their advantage, after all he is a "sick" man. I agree 100% with the poster's opinion of Stephen Tardrew, the manager of Angus House. The man is a thief, a liar, a bludger, and a charlatan.
 
What he has done to Angus House is a disgrace and the "mate" he claims he has in the VVAA, who he is keeping him in the job should be bought to account,  not only by the members of the VVA  but also the QLD taxpayers who pay this frauds wages.
 
             Had he been doing his job  Riddle would not have been assaulted. He wouldn't have been there. He'd already been kicked out of the house for alcohol issues and was allowed back in. Not because Tardrew is a good guy who felt sorry for him but because Tardrew is running the house by the books, not the book.
 
He needs "yes" men in the house and that's how he's been able to do his pilfering. "You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours."
 
               I am just waiting for that can of worms to open. Tardrew wouldn't even bother mounting a defence. He'll run.
 
               Gentlemen, I don't believe the stories that has Riddle jumping out of choppers killing untold numbers of VC. I certainly didn't hear him big noting himself in that sense. He was drawing comparisons between his service and others as his drinking increased. He was trying to come to grips with why some blokes get PTSD TPIs and others don't. The audience must understand that this man was bought out to Australia with great fanfare. If you're being feted by all and sundry as a great hero who deserves favourable treatment, sooner or later you might start believing it. What the Mad Galahs didn't count on was the ''silent majority" raising their heads. They have and unfortunately Riddle's head has become the ball.
                                                                 
******* ******** NAME DELETED
« Last Edit: Saturday04April2009 by Cassius » Logged
Rod91281
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